An Adventure in Firsts: '83 XS650 Heritage Special Build/Rebuild

[Jan_P]

Not that easy to say
Check that there is power on the battery ..measure --> and check other electrics horn and lights so it appears right.
Then downstream via fuses to ignition box that power is there
very often not to say virtually always misfiring not starting it is a poor ground so please check that .Tightened at battery
and from coils and Ignition box. That nothing is loose.

being too lean, too rich, fouled spark plugs, weak battery, timing, blown head gasket...

I don't believe it is any of those above. .all of a sudden on both sides
Is it a stock petcock then there is a PRI position that can be tested first of all

 

[jetmechmarty]

You're trying to start the bike with the electric leg? I have an '83. I rarely try the electric start when it's cold. It rarely lights off when I do try it. The electric start function is fine once the engine has warmed. I suspect the issue is the starter itself. I think it's drawing too much current. That, and the coils are original.
I adopted a cold start procedure for my bike a long time ago. First, petcock to PRIME. Choke OPEN. I kick it through twice with the ignition OFF. I move the petcock to ON and the ignition to ON. One kick from there usually starts it up.

I know a lot of the bikes living on this forum light off with the electric starter straight away. Once upon a time, my starter quit working. I carried it around as ballast for a few years. Eventually, I replaced mine with a used one, so I really don't know the condition of its internals. I also know my ignition coils were installed by the manufacturer. I hope this offers some insight.

 

[Raymond]

I agree with Jan and Marty.

Very unlikely that something serious has suddenly gone wrong, so most likely a minor electrical glitch.

The bike will act dead if there is a loose earth wire. Mine did that when the battery earth loosened itself - checking the wires at the battery terminals is now something I do regularly. Check connections as Jan says.

I'm another one who avoids the electric start. It works and couple of times, when bike is warmed up but doesn't start first or second kick at a filling station, then I use the button rather than look like more of an idiot than I need to. But otherwise, it's kick start. Apart from anything else, the electric starter pulls a lot of juice out of the battery.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Apart from anything else, the electric starter pulls a lot of juice out of the battery.

That and the charging rotor is drawing off the battery as well. My hypothesis is that it doesn't leave enough for the old coils.

 

[5twins]

Yes, the battery on this bike isn't that big and doesn't hold much of a reserve. Run it down a bit from sustained electric starter use and there may not be enough juice left in it to power both the ignition and the starter. It will still crank but not start. The starter is using all the available battery power. Kicking doesn't use any battery power so what you've got can go towards powering the ignition.

For the first start of the day in cooler weather, I always kick mine as well. If the bike has been sitting about a week or more, I'll put it on "Prime" to replenish any fuel in the bowls that may have evaporated away. Choke on and it usually fires within one to three healthy kicks.

Even though you think you have gas, do switch the petcock to reserve. You may be right at the point of running out on the main tank. This has happened to me several times over the years, just this Spring as a matter of fact. First start of the year for my Special wasn't going very well. It was trying but wouldn't start and stay running. According to the trip meter, there should have been enough gas in it, but I decided to try reserve anyway. It fired right up then. I guess more fuel evaporated over the winter than I thought, lol.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I guess more fuel evaporated over the winter than I thought, lol.

Ain't that the truth! I ran out of gas on one of my first rides this season. The standpipe was floating around in the tank, so I was stranded.

 

[Jim]

Wasn’t too long ago that I changed the spark plugs, may be about five months by now though... (fingers crossed that’s it here)

That would be an easy one to cross off the list of possibilities. You really should keep a spare set anyway.... swap 'em out and see what happens.

 

[5twins]

Yes, if your mixture is off (rich or lean), the plugs can take quite a beating in that amount of time. But as I mentioned, do try putting it on "Reserve". If it's at that point of just running out of fuel from the main tank, the symptoms you're describing are just what you get. It will almost start, but won't.

 

[MarieKaramazov]

Thanks everyone. Connections at battery terminals look good. Checking connections on fuses or coils is above my head at the moment, don’t know half of what I’m looking at. After Reading about how much the estart drains this battery; I’m starting there. Got it on the tender right now. I’ll try again once that reads as good. If no luck there I’m going for spark plugs. Almost changed them out now but then I won’t know if it was them or the battery.

 

[5twins]

You could at least look at them. If they're all black and crusty then, well, that might be it.

 

[Jim]

Almost changed them out now but then I won’t know if it was them or the battery.

Sounds like you're actually starting to get the hang of this....

 

[member28833]

You do have a Spare set of used BP7ES's on hand there? Believe so, I'd swap those in now.
About kick starting after a described carburetor "prime" and manual engine turn over a couple revs, switch off. Yes! That's the routine. Then the real kick ! Or two..I find it very easy to kick an XS up while it's on its centerstand. You too can find the easy routine of getting your XS up on its centerstand. It's not so much a strength challenge, more of a "how to". Bike totally vertical, both centerstand feet on the ground even, then a heavy foot on the tang and that right hand at the seat area frame grab, body core strength will lift it right up

 

[5twins]

Yes, I do all my kick starting on the centerstand as well. I stand on the pegs, remain standing on the left one with my left foot while I kick with the right foot. If warm starting, I'll crack the throttle open a hair. If cold starting with full choke, no throttle but I'm at the ready to feed little throttle blips into it to get and keep it running once it catches.

 

[member28833]

Doin a valve clearances check here etc.. and did now put the older, heavier, slightly longer kick start lever from a 79 on this just to give a bit more kicking advantage.
Finding an older kick start lever just may help you as well. Another on the "to do" list maybe.
-R

 

[Jan_P]

Madam MK how is it going ??

 

[Raymond]

Madam MK how is it going ??

?

 

[fredintoon]

Ain't that the truth! I ran out of gas on one of my first rides this season. The standpipe was floating around in the tank, so I was stranded.

Hi marty,
the gas tap standpipe falling out is a very nearly zero symptom failure.
You hafta be fully aware of when you should have needed to switch to reserve in order to wonder why you didn't have to.
When my bike pulled that trick I was simply happy about the great gas mileage I was getting.
Then I switched to reserve to find there was none.
Dumped in my 2 gallon jerrycan of extra gas, rode to the nearest gas station for a complete fill-up then rode home.

 

[MarieKaramazov]

Hi everyone!
I'm here, I'm here!!! Bummed that I've had to be absent for so long, but between an intense work schedule returning and getting kicked in the face by life, I have had zero time for the bike. (I didn't get notification emails about your guy's messages on the board either...strange) The bike is alive and even though I've been a bad friend, he's still my friend, albeit grumpy.
I was really hoping to do the fork seal and replacement of the MC, brake line, and caliper inspection myself since, as you know, my goal has been to do this restore and modification myself. But considering my schedule and that I'd need to rent a DIY bay or another option just to do the forks and other factors, I had to bite the bullet and pay someone to do that job. So, I ordered the parts and they did the job. Bummed, but it is what it is and it's not like there isn't plenty more to do and learn myself. Good news is that now I have a new master cylinder on, new stainless brake line, new fork seals and fresh fork oil (they were both pretty empty). (There was a leak coming from the MC after I got it back, but it looks like they just didn't secure the right side screw all the way; been fine since that was screwed in all the way haha). Brakes are better, feels like I can actually get a hard, immediate stop. (Though I do think a brake upgrade is down the line.) Oh, the mechanic did say he saw a bit of corrosion on the outside of the caliper piston. I saw a pic: just looked like two shallow divots. I'll try to find a pic of something that looks similar and post
I can post links to the parts I got for reference when I have a sec but off to work now!

Next up: new gasket for right side oil cover; trace the oil leak culprit (coming down kickstand again like with pushrod seal leak); replace oil drain washers; suss out whether neutral switch is leaking and repair...
further down: address small leak from behind cam cover(s), valve adjustment...

Oh, and because I'm super smart I pulled away yesterday with my lock on the front wheel, so now I have a bent spoke . From the quick google I did it seems like i'm still good to ride like this? If I tug on the spoke it will rock verrry slightly (compared to when I tug on the one next to it that doesn't rock)

Ps. as for the starting issue--I had drained the battery relying on the estart. Tenderized it and I was good. I just use the kick 90% of the time now. (I do it while on the bike, standing on left peg, kick with right, bike on side stand). Goes on first kick more often than not!

 

[Jim]

Glad to hear you're still alive and kicking....pun intended.

 

[member28833]

as you know, my goal has been to do this restore and modification myself. But considering my schedule and that I'd need to rent a DIY bay or another option just to do the forks and other factors, I had to bite the bullet and pay someone to do that job. So, I ordered the parts and they did the job. Bummed, but it is what it is

you have a fan club that is cheering you on !