stiannb
XS650 Member
I'm gonna lower my bike 2" and I wonder if somebody can tip me a good quality rear dampers?
Preferably looks vintage and have some adjustment options.
Preferably looks vintage and have some adjustment options.
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Any tip for a race inspired rear-dampers?
- Thread starter stiannb
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- suspension
You want race quality handling and you're gonna drop the bike? Sorry, guy, that doesn't work. Before you start spending money, find out a little bit about suspension work, then decide if you're going to go for handling or cosmetics. Here's a tip: the fast looks of some of the "custom" bikes you've been looking at are skin deep--as in lipstick on pig.
Let's consider the front end for a start. From '77 forward, rated fork travel is just a little short of 6". With properly rated springs, about 2/3 of max travel should be used; in this case, about 4". For good tire compliance, laden sag should be no less than 1". If you drop the front 2", that leaves you 3" of usable travel.
With that setup, the only way to keep the forks from bottoming under hard braking, etc. will be to install springs that are too stiff to keep the tire properly hooked up to the pavement. If that's your plan you may as well save your bucks and hang the cheapest shocks you can find in back. You're either going to set up a motorcycle or "build" a wet dream; it's your scoot, the choice is up to you.
OK, chopjockies, time for you to jump in and tell the man I'm being hateful and don't know what I'm talking about.
Let's consider the front end for a start. From '77 forward, rated fork travel is just a little short of 6". With properly rated springs, about 2/3 of max travel should be used; in this case, about 4". For good tire compliance, laden sag should be no less than 1". If you drop the front 2", that leaves you 3" of usable travel.
With that setup, the only way to keep the forks from bottoming under hard braking, etc. will be to install springs that are too stiff to keep the tire properly hooked up to the pavement. If that's your plan you may as well save your bucks and hang the cheapest shocks you can find in back. You're either going to set up a motorcycle or "build" a wet dream; it's your scoot, the choice is up to you.
OK, chopjockies, time for you to jump in and tell the man I'm being hateful and don't know what I'm talking about.
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stiannb
XS650 Member
If you se on pictures of xs650 cafe racers many people have lowered the triple trees on their front suspension, so they have a stick up over their triple trees, I don't want that on my bike. So if I lower the front 2" the bike will have a "visual" horizontal line under the tank an make the bike look pretty nice.
The back suspension is still stock height.
The back suspension is still stock height.
I've seen plenty of pictures of ignorant look-fast cosmetic mods over the last 50 years of riding. A lot of guys have done it, but that does not make it a good idea. Do some study, do the math, and do the suspension right, or not.
Here's one more thing to think about. If you overspring the front you'll have to do the same in back if you want to avoid the "rocking chair" effect.
Here's one more thing to think about. If you overspring the front you'll have to do the same in back if you want to avoid the "rocking chair" effect.
stiannb
XS650 Member
The front end will be rebuild all the way, with a new valve, progressive spring, and hugh's handbuilt lowering kit (look how it's installed). Will it be over sprung... NO, the problem can be that the sprig will be to soft.
As for the rear i'm not after any exotic brand dampers, just to hear peoples experience with the monza damper or equally dampers preferably with adjustable spring rate and retraction rate.
As for the rear i'm not after any exotic brand dampers, just to hear peoples experience with the monza damper or equally dampers preferably with adjustable spring rate and retraction rate.
The fork modification you're talking about will lessen available travel, and you will either experience bottoming of the suspension or use stiff springs that will yield less than optimal compliance; there is no way around it. The Monza shocks are junk. If you want shocks with adjustable damping at a reasonable price, you won't do better than Hagon.
You'd do well to go to www.totalcontroltraining.net and download their free e-book, Suspension 101. Good luck to you.
You'd do well to go to www.totalcontroltraining.net and download their free e-book, Suspension 101. Good luck to you.
Stian,
I am unsure what model XS you have. If it is 77 or older, it definitely did not come with a top out spring. This creates a loud "clunk" that is both felt and heard under hard accelleration, when the fork extends fully. This is definitely an issue for me with my 77 XS.
I can agree that a stock XS with 320 mm shocks and a stock fork looks a bit "raked out",
but the cure for both looks and function is definitely not any simple 2" lowering spacer.
Longer, good quality rear shocks will help quite a bit, I'm sure Grizld agrees, maybe 15 to 25 mm longer should be fine. With shocks, as most other things, you get what you pay for, and often less than that. Get a set of longer shocks with spring rate for your bike, your weight and riding style. I have had Hagon, and did not like them at all, in fact I would like to sell them cheap. Some cheaper "racing style" shocks with external reservoir work really poorly, for example the red Marzocchis from the 80s, and Paioli from the same era. I do not believe any current Chinese/Taiwanese shocks are much better.... Now I have basic emulsion type Ohlins on mine. Wilbers, WP, Race Tech, Nitro, etc make good shocks, and can set them up for you. The cheapest shock I would even consider is Koni/Ikon.....
Now regarding the fork.The XS fork has 150 mm travel, while modern (sport) bikes have mostly between 120 and 130 mm. So slight lowering (20 to 30 mm) may be ok, if spring rate and fork damping is set correctly. Mostly this would mean a fairly expensive order from Race Tech, new LINEAR springs, and "Gold Valve Emulators". Of course new seals and oil of the corrext viscosity as well. Then play around with spring preload, oil viscosity, oil level and the compression damping adjustment on the Emulator.
And, like I have posted before, any lowering spacer should incorporate a top out spring!
Maybe a better option is to do as Richard Pollock used to recommend, 38 mm forks from a Yamaha FZR400 or FZR600, and TT500 triples bored out to 38 mm. This setup is what I dream of, it is a lot lighter than stock XS, as well as stiffer. It may even be possible to use FZR calipers, and do away with any adapter plates if modern calipers are on the menu.
I am unsure what model XS you have. If it is 77 or older, it definitely did not come with a top out spring. This creates a loud "clunk" that is both felt and heard under hard accelleration, when the fork extends fully. This is definitely an issue for me with my 77 XS.
I can agree that a stock XS with 320 mm shocks and a stock fork looks a bit "raked out",
but the cure for both looks and function is definitely not any simple 2" lowering spacer.
Longer, good quality rear shocks will help quite a bit, I'm sure Grizld agrees, maybe 15 to 25 mm longer should be fine. With shocks, as most other things, you get what you pay for, and often less than that. Get a set of longer shocks with spring rate for your bike, your weight and riding style. I have had Hagon, and did not like them at all, in fact I would like to sell them cheap. Some cheaper "racing style" shocks with external reservoir work really poorly, for example the red Marzocchis from the 80s, and Paioli from the same era. I do not believe any current Chinese/Taiwanese shocks are much better.... Now I have basic emulsion type Ohlins on mine. Wilbers, WP, Race Tech, Nitro, etc make good shocks, and can set them up for you. The cheapest shock I would even consider is Koni/Ikon.....
Now regarding the fork.The XS fork has 150 mm travel, while modern (sport) bikes have mostly between 120 and 130 mm. So slight lowering (20 to 30 mm) may be ok, if spring rate and fork damping is set correctly. Mostly this would mean a fairly expensive order from Race Tech, new LINEAR springs, and "Gold Valve Emulators". Of course new seals and oil of the corrext viscosity as well. Then play around with spring preload, oil viscosity, oil level and the compression damping adjustment on the Emulator.
And, like I have posted before, any lowering spacer should incorporate a top out spring!
Maybe a better option is to do as Richard Pollock used to recommend, 38 mm forks from a Yamaha FZR400 or FZR600, and TT500 triples bored out to 38 mm. This setup is what I dream of, it is a lot lighter than stock XS, as well as stiffer. It may even be possible to use FZR calipers, and do away with any adapter plates if modern calipers are on the menu.
You can add the later top out springs to your '77 forks if you like, they'll fit right in. They will reduce the travel slightly and lower the forks about 10mm, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Raising the tubes slightly (1/4" to 1/2") in the trees is a common mod and is said to improve handling a little. This accomplishes pretty much the same thing. Like I said, a small drop up front is common. 2" or more is silly, stupid, detrimental to handling, etc., etc., etc. But ..... the heart wants what the heart wants, lol.
Yeah, 5twins, the heart wants what the heart wants--but sometimes that changes in a hurry when the rubber meets the road (or fails to), and the brain starts to have its say.
Arctic, there are two Hagon dual shocks available, one featuring variable damping; that one's quite good . But right, Ohlins are excellent. If pockets are deep enough there's also Works Performance; I use a pair of custom built WP alloy body shocks (and straight rate springs with Race Tech valves up front, of course).
Arctic, there are two Hagon dual shocks available, one featuring variable damping; that one's quite good . But right, Ohlins are excellent. If pockets are deep enough there's also Works Performance; I use a pair of custom built WP alloy body shocks (and straight rate springs with Race Tech valves up front, of course).
stiannb
XS650 Member
I got a 1982 us special.
Well I got a Ducati monster frontend laying around, bit to much work and expensive to get that on place.
But I want a retro looking racer, so regular racing öhlins dampers will ruin the look.
If they got some retro looking dampers i'm in for it.
I'm not gonna race it just cruise on it, so i don't need a fully race spec bike, but I want the retro race look.
And to the front end discussion:
If the golden valve does the job I think it does the spring will work fine with 2" less travel length, if the valve make the fluid more viscous and control the flow of the oil better you can control the contraction of the damper and retraction much better.
I do not want to drive with a springy moped damper like grizld1 are referring to.
Well I got a Ducati monster frontend laying around, bit to much work and expensive to get that on place.
But I want a retro looking racer, so regular racing öhlins dampers will ruin the look.
If they got some retro looking dampers i'm in for it.
I'm not gonna race it just cruise on it, so i don't need a fully race spec bike, but I want the retro race look.
And to the front end discussion:
If the golden valve does the job I think it does the spring will work fine with 2" less travel length, if the valve make the fluid more viscous and control the flow of the oil better you can control the contraction of the damper and retraction much better.
I do not want to drive with a springy moped damper like grizld1 are referring to.
Stian,
Have a look at this webpage:
http://www.falconshockabsorbers.co.uk/class-rrpg01.htm
I actually bought a pair from them, for a Suzuki 125 project for my son. They build the shocks to your specs, so they can supply for almost any twin shock bike. These shocks have a slim, vintage look, but work much better than the basic Hagons, at least that is my experience from Hagon shocks on my two RD350s and my XS.
They have an alloy body, so are lightweight, and fit and finish is excellent.
I would definitely recommend a shock with 4" stroke, and long enough to give at least 1/2" (12-13 mm) tyre clearance at full compression. Please double check the shortest distance between the shock studs that gives this clearance, with the tyre brand and dimension you will use on your bike. This shortest, safe CL to CL distance plus shock travel is the free shock length you need. Also, if you can, provide shock leverage info, rider and bike weight to them before ordering. Since the shock will be custom built, there will most likely be a no-return policy.....
Have a look at this webpage:
http://www.falconshockabsorbers.co.uk/class-rrpg01.htm
I actually bought a pair from them, for a Suzuki 125 project for my son. They build the shocks to your specs, so they can supply for almost any twin shock bike. These shocks have a slim, vintage look, but work much better than the basic Hagons, at least that is my experience from Hagon shocks on my two RD350s and my XS.
They have an alloy body, so are lightweight, and fit and finish is excellent.
I would definitely recommend a shock with 4" stroke, and long enough to give at least 1/2" (12-13 mm) tyre clearance at full compression. Please double check the shortest distance between the shock studs that gives this clearance, with the tyre brand and dimension you will use on your bike. This shortest, safe CL to CL distance plus shock travel is the free shock length you need. Also, if you can, provide shock leverage info, rider and bike weight to them before ordering. Since the shock will be custom built, there will most likely be a no-return policy.....
