Boyer ignition

[TheGerman]

Hi guys , I have a little problem with my 82 xs heritage special ,
i got the bike on an auction . It started right up but died as soon I hit the throttle. So I cleaned the carbs, put it back together and it backfired a lot ! Ok ,,,, must be the timing than - I opened up the point cover - "surprise " - empty ! No pointer plate ,no rod .
I ordered the complete Boyer ignition set- it came with an installation Manuel but they recommendet to go on the Boyer page cause there are more fotos and its ester explained.
After tones of research I can't find anything about the stock wire going to the ignition coil -
After the Boyer Manuel the red/white wire is in use but the orange wire from the ignition unit (after 3different wiring diagrams) is not in use .
All the posts are just confusing me and its also not in my mother language .
Thank you for every help , maybe it's just an easy thing and discussed a thousand times already (hope not)

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Willkommen, TheGerman.

Hi guys , I have a little problem with my 82 xs heritage special ,
i got the bike on an auction . It started right up but died as soon I hit the throttle. So I cleaned the carbs, put it back together and it backfired a lot ! Ok ,,,, must be the timing than - I opened up the point cover - "surprise " - empty ! No pointer plate ,no rod .

Ja, das ist richtig.

1980-1984 XS650 uses TCI ignition. No points, no rod, no advancer.
Use the forum's Search tool on "TCI", and on "rare earth magnets".

I ordered the complete Boyer ignition set- it came with an installation Manuel but they recommendet to go on the Boyer page cause there are more fotos and its ester explained.
After tones of research I can't find anything about the stock wire going to the ignition coil -
After the Boyer Manuel the red/white wire is in use but the orange wire from the ignition unit (after 3different wiring diagrams) is not in use .

Use the forum's Search tool on "Boyer".

...All the posts are just confusing me and its also not in my mother language .
Thank you for every help , maybe it's just an easy thing and discussed a thousand times already (hope not)

Langsam lesen. We're here to help...

 

[peanut]

welcome german
perhaps this might be helpful if you have someone to translate.
Which Boyer kit did you buy ? some kits require a special dual coil

regards Johnny

willkommen Deutsch
vielleicht könnte dies nützlich sein, wenn Sie jemanden haben, zu übersetzen.
Welche Boyer Kit hast du gekauft ? einige Kits erfordern eine spezielle Doppelspule

in Bezug auf
Johnny

 

[TheGerman]

Thank you really much for answering . I'm just not sure what happened with the stock orange wire - the red/white is connected to the + on the ignition coil ( so as the red from the blue box ) The black from the blue box is going to the other side on the ignition coil . White is ground and the other two wire are clearl.
I just can't find an answer about the orange wire what went to the old ignition coil
It's an stk022 Boyer ignition , I got it from eBay and it has a dual ignition coil inkludet



Sorry for the trouble but I'm a little bit unfamiliar with xs 650 - I restored Vespas back in Germany but I always wanted an xs and had an picture of it in my head for years .
Sadly our inspection don't like that picture
I'm so close !

 

[XSLeo]

On the stock TCI coil, power from the kill switch went to the coil on a red/white wire.
Power also went to the TCI box on a red/white wire.
The orange wire went to the TCI box. Where current flow was controlled by grounding and un grounding the orange wire.
As the alternator rotor spins a magnet embedded in the rotor passes by the pickups. This creates a signal that gets sent to the TCI box that uses this signal to turn on and off the ground on the orange wire. With the ground turned on the coil charges, when the ground gets turned off the coil discharges and sparks the plugs.
Like the way points turn the coil on/off to spark. The TCI uses transistors.
I don't know how a Boyer works but I assume it works about the same way. It controls the current flow through the coil. Turning it on/off to cause spark.
Leo

 

[peanut]

thats a better explanation than I was about to post Leo.
I have the Boyer Micro digital unit on my bike which includes the electronic advance so it is wired up differently to german's Boyer.

german it is very late at night now so I'll check in the morning. I need to see an electrical schematic for your boyer .

The Orange wire connects your original coils to the original ignition unit. As you will not be using either anymore ,you won't need the orange wire any more .( You will need to run a new wire from the Boyer coil pack to the Boyer blue unit )
Best to tape up the orange wire to make it safe.

I'll check in the morning
Johnny

 

[Paulrxs650]

ive used the Boyer ignition on a host of bikes now, so might be able to help. I assume you have the micro power (blue box) and the twin output (black) Gill coil? Here's a wiring diagram for the micro power and link to the instructions - http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00303.pdf

There's not two positives needed - one switched +ve to the red wire from the Boyer unit and one switched +ve to the +ve terminal on the coil. The -ve terminal on the coil connects to the black wire from the box, which is the trigger wire. If the orange / White is spare, just tuck it out the way like Peanut says.

 

[peanut]

nice one Paul !

Had some Family stuff this morning so couldn't look for the schematic.
You would have thought after all these years that Boyer would upgrade their installation instructions, they are abysmal for any first time user imo.

 

[vr3506]

Have a look at xs650.de
Unter "werkstatt" steht ein Einbauanleitung fuer (rote) Boyer.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi guys , I have a little problem with my 82 xs heritage special ,
i got the bike on an auction . It started right up but died as soon I hit the throttle. So I cleaned the carbs, put it back together and it backfired a lot ! Ok ,,,, must be the timing than - I opened up the point cover - "surprise " - empty ! No pointer plate ,no rod .
I ordered the complete Boyer ignition set- it came with an installation Manuel but they recommendet to go on the Boyer page cause there are more fotos and its ester explained.
After tones of research I can't find anything about the stock wire going to the ignition coil -
After the Boyer Manuel the red/white wire is in use but the orange wire from the ignition unit (after 3different wiring diagrams) is not in use .
All the posts are just confusing me and its also not in my mother language .
Thank you for every help , maybe it's just an easy thing and discussed a thousand times already (hope not)

Hi German and welcome,
XS650s made in 1980 and later use a TCI (Transistor Controlled Ignition) system that doesn't have points etcetera so the points and advancer covers are supposed to be empty.
As the bike started and ran, even if it didn't run well, I suspect that your problems are carburettor related, that the stock ignition still works and that you bought a Boyer system that the bike didn't need.

 

[peanut]

shhhhhhhhhhh fred we wern't going to mention that

 

[TheGerman]

Thank you all for the helpful answers . Sorry that I couldn't get earlier to you guys but I was fighting with some kidney stones and didn't worked on the bike at all ,,,

I got spark but now I'm fighting with the carburetor ,,, trying to find the right jets and mixture but I saw that here are a lot of posts about that thanks so much again !!!

 

[Jan_P]

Gentlemen
I have two bikes Some call it two scrap heaps 1980 XS 650 US Custom
But I manage to keep one rolling
So last year I had problems with bike 2 ..so I went for the other one
Bike 1
Engine Rebuild in winter ..Nothing wrong with the compression Now .. Back in the frame ..Looks OK
And turns
Fuel is coming in .I have little oil in the cylinders after rebuild.
Same Boyer Bransden same carburetors as I had Starting problems with on Bike 2
Just moved them over. From 1
Now when I kick I have spark but the spark looks weak again as last year on the other bike.
Especially on the left side
Spark plugs are new .NGK .BP7ES
Boyer is Micro power kit 00303
I do know it does not like Low voltage .But i believe that voltage is good enough at least at the battery and installation good enough on two bikes.

I had a mishap one night in warm weather ( real hot ) It stopped running on one cylinder . In town
I later noticed that the charging regulator was not working .Putting out to high voltage Somewhere 15 -1 7 V
Not exactly sure
Getting home that night on one cylinder I next morning started up cold
Running perfect again .And when hot -- up to speed . Misfiring again. Dying on left. Eventually replacing the Voltage regulator..
And driving again .But always difficult to start I suspect that weak spark . There on bike 2 " and now on bike 1

CAN the overvoltage ( Fried regulator ) cause the effect that Boyer gets damaged in this manner so that spark gets weak have anyone had any such experience

I do have another Boyer I plan to test an older Kit 00103 but I am not sure about status.

I need to get a better startup procedure starting first or second kick --- on the bike .Please give info if you know of any better ignition
systems in that respect.
Or if you had this problems I do believe earth and connections wiring are OK. Even though the wiring is not perfect. but hints and propositions are welcome.
Connecting perhaps directly to battery. ?
I can of Course try the stock ignition with points .But some Electronic stuff should work.
Ride on.
Here are Beautiful nights .Only few hours dark. With perfect temperature this time of year.

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OK been trying to get it starting
AS it seems the blue box with coil did not give anything but a weak spark
Changed to Red box with coil .. grounded directly to the battery minus
got a stronger spark and eventually a start up.
Under this process I Found a website with helpful info that gave insights
Some Resistance values and other procedures
It is from the lads with British bikes but I found it helpful

http://vintagebikemagazine.com/technical-articles/boyer-trouble-shooting/