Brake Upgrades?

XSLeo

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There are many threads on here about doing brake up grades. All of these threads are on how to do the upgrades.
In this thread I'd like to talk about the why the upgrades work.
Basically a brake uses the pressure you exert on the brake lever through mechanical or hydralic means to push a solid object against a rotating object to stop the rotaion.
Most of the people on here that do upgrades, do them on the fropnt brake. They start with the 77 up single piston caliper. I'll use this system as the starting point.
When you pull on the brake lever, lets say you use 10 lbs of force. This force is altered by the brake lever ratio. I measured my brake lever from the pivot point to the place where it pushes on the piston. I also measured from the pivot point to where my finger closet to the pivot sets and to where my finger fartest from the pivot sets.
Pivot to piston is about 1 inch. Pivot to first finger about 4 inches, to last finger about 6.5 inches. An average of about 5.25 inches. That gives a ratio of about 5.25-1. The 10 lbs of force on the lever is increased by 5.25 times or about 52.5 lbs on the piston.
This force is converted from lbs to psi by the piston. To calulate this you need to find the area on the piston in inches. The stock 14 mm piston is .551 inches. To find the area the formula is pi x R squared. R is 1/2 of the diameter, so .551 devided by 2 is .2755. Square this by multiplying by itself. .2755 x .2755 = .0759, this X pi or 3.14 = .238 square inches. To get psi, you need devide 1 inch by the area of the piston. 1 devided by .238 = 4.2. Now multiply the 52.5 lbs by the 4.2 you get 220.5 psi.
This 220.5 psi is evenly spread throughout the system.
Now down at the caliper the piston converts this pressure to force that pushes the pads against the rotor.
First you need to find the area of the piston. The piston is 38 mm or 1.49 inches. devide by 2 is .745. .745 x.745 = .555 x 3.14 =1.742 Devide the psi by the square inches, 220.5 devived by 1.742 = 126.5 lbs of force pushing the pads against the rotor.
Now that we have the force reguired to make the bike stop with the stock set up lets look at two of the easiest mods. Adding a second caliper and rotor. Or using a smaller M/C with the stock single caliper/rotor.
Now when 10 lbs of force is applied to the lever the pressure of 220.5 is created in the system. This pressure is the same through out the system. So the second caliper does the same as the first, creates 126.5 lbs of force to push the pads to the rotor. This doubles the force applied so doubles the brake power. Now to stop the bike only 5 lbs of force on the lever stops the bike.
Using a smaller M/C such as the 11 mm reccomended gives us a .433 bore, 1/2 of .433 is .216. .216 x .216 = .046 X 3.14 = .146 si.
10 lbs at the lever = 52.5 at the M/C.
1 devided by .146 = 6.84. 52.5 x 6.84 = 359.1 psi. You see the increase in pressure from 220.5 to 359.1 now at the caliper it still has the 1.742 area so divide the psi by the area you get 206 lbs of force pushing the pads to the rotor.
As you can see the force increased almost the same as with the dual caliper set up. On the lever you will get a difference of about 2.6 lbs between the two. I doubt most will feel a difference between the two.
I know these figures are rough. I'm just guessing on the force applied to the lever, but all the other things apply.
You can use the same principles to determine how much effect any M/C or caliper will have on braking. Front or rear brakes. On drum brakes there may not be as much varibles to experiment with but the same basic principle applies, increase the pressure of the shoes to the drum and the brake will be better.
These changes will effect the travel of the lever. It increase the travel but the less force required to work the brake will be less, so they kinda balance out.
The reduction in the effort at the lever greatly increases the feel of the brake. With the stock stytem the feel can be somewhat wooden. This means as you icrease the pressure on the lever it feels pretty much the same even as the brake locks. With the decreased pressure you can feel the changes as you pull the lever harder. With just a few practice runs you can by feel tell when the brake is about to lock and you can release just enough pressure to prevent lock up.
I guess it would be possible to go to too small a M/C and run out of lever travel before the brakes worked, but that would have to be a very extremly small M/C.
Leo
 
Great write up Leo, very interesting to see how the math works. I read some of your previous discussions in threads about MC bore size and helped me come to the decision on ordering this 11m slimline from mikes:
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/08-4003.html

Haven't installed yet but also got SS brake lines as well as I believe that was a suggestion.
 
After I reread it I hoped it wasn't to confusing. I got this flowing through my mind a few days ago and it kept me awake two nights. I have had things like this happen before and the only way to get it out of my head is to put it on a forum. Then I can sleep.
I have found that if I can understand the why of things it helps me to troubleshoot and fix things. Like the write up I did on the basic electrical systems. Once I got it straight in my head it was a WTF moment. Now these systems seem so easy to work with.
Thanks for the comments.
Yes, the first things in any upgrades is replacing the old rubber lines with either new rubber or the braided stainless. The braided is the better option, the rubber stretches under pressure so not quite all of it gets to the caliper.
Leo
 
No it read very well. Took me back to my degree days and learning formulae just like that. Its got me thinking of all of the others that I have put to the back of my mind! For example equilibrium of a beam for frame design... now thats a one I ll have to try hard and remember! :)
 
Nice Leo!

Something I just came across, I have a late model dual disk not sure which master yet, PO had the handle screw lock nut on the outside it was a big finger stretch to the lever, brakes felt very touchy. I moved the nut to it's correct location and set the lever for a much shorter reach, the feel was transformed. Much better controlled braking with the lever closer to the grip. My hands are small/average size.
 
That's one thing I like about the stock M/C's, they have adjustable levers.
I have medium hands myself. The adjustment on the lever helps.
Now on the clutch side I just live with the lever out as far as it is. Better to reach a bit and have a good clutch than an easy reach with a poor working clutch.
Leo
 
Hi, i have been searching info for my front brake project. Im not so good with english, so i dont understant all the write ups here. I have -81 special with single disc and i purchased used L-side caliper and disc from germany a while ago. I repaired caliper with new seals and bougth a second brake line. Because im a novice, i didnt realize that my master cylinder should be larger size. Is it possible to use that stock MC which is 13mm (i guess?) with dual disc ? How about the added weight, what does it do?
 
Hi, i have been searching info for my front brake project. Im not so good with english, so i dont understant all the write ups here. I have -81 special with single disc and i purchased used L-side caliper and disc from germany a while ago. I repaired caliper with new seals and bougth a second brake line. Because im a novice, i didnt realize that my master cylinder should be larger size. Is it possible to use that stock MC which is 13mm (i guess?) with dual disc ? How about the added weight, what does it do?

I can't answer the question regarding the added unsprung weight but I can tell you that I use a 13mm master cylinder and it has worked well for me (it works for me but just because it works for me doesn't mean it is right). There is a brake chart done by MMM from 650central that shows different ratios and his recommendations as to the best ratios. My best suggestion is to find that chart (I don't know where it is right off hand) and decide for yourself if that is close enough for you. If you feel that it is close enough for you hook it all up and test it, you may find you like it or you may want to experiment with other MC bore sizes.
 
Your stock master cylinder is 14 mm. It will work very well with a dual disc set up. It works better on a dual than a single. I use a 14 mm master on both my 75 and 81 dual disc set up's. They work very well. The 75 has a set of slotted 5 mm rotors. The 81 has slotted 7 mm rotors.
Both are heavier and do increase the unsprung weight. This extra weight can effect handling. I can't say how much, I never did a ride with it one way then a ride the other.
Leo
 
Some more for your thoughts.....use Newton's law to get total force needed
-Total braking force (N) = Acceleration due to gravity (m/sec) × Motorcycle total weight (kg) × Deceleration (G)

Here's the formula for system pressure requirement
- pressure = Brake clamp load ( N) ÷ total piston area (mm`)

I have the formula to calculate rubber hose expansion at the shop ask if you'd like it.
Other factors..... fluid compression variations with temperatures. Pad compressibility in materials.

When calculating piston area in calipers or master cylinders subtract 3% as air that be trapped.

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Ok, im very glad to know they should work with stock cylinder. The other thing that bothers, is the left disc which is same diameter than right, 298mm, but thickness is stock 7mm and left 5mm. Also the holes are different size. Look at the picture. Do i have incorrect disc here ? May the left disc be so worn?
 

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I'm not sure if it makes a difference. It would be best to have then match. The 5mm rotor you got is probably off a smaller bike. Like an XS500 or SR 500. I think they used the thinner rotors.
I have a set of 5 mm rotors I bought of Ebay. The seller claimed they came off an XS1100.
I think I would contact the seller of the thinner rotor and either send it back or get another 5mm rotor. They are lighter.
The rotors I have are slotted. One set is 7 mm, the other is 5 mm. The 7 mm set is on the 81, the 5 mm set is on the 75.
Leo
 
Ok. I think im going to test that 5mm rotor because stock one used to shake when braking. If the thinner is more straight, i get another one. Thank you! Again.
 
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