Yes, scrounging the butterfly plates is the only way to get one. Yamaha never sold that part. Luckily, other Yamaha carb sets used this same #135 plate (XS750 and 850 triple, maybe some 1100s). They can also be scrounged from Suzuki GS425/450 carbs. I've had to replace a couple already because the P.O. buggered them up (bent them or even filed the edges, probably to get them in easier).
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BS34 Float Help
- Thread starter bul_racer
- Start date
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Been a few days so I thought I'd post an update.
So I spent several days trying to find suitable screws to replace those I lost for the gas cap. One of the experimental screws I tried to insert broke off and I had to drill it out. At that point I figured it was easier to just take it completely apart. Fun & games getting it back together. I did finally get it together and it doesn't leak but Damn! it's hard to close and takes 2 hands to open: 1 to push down and the other to turn the key.
Been trying to de-rust my gas tank. It wasn't too bad but needed some help. Tried vinegar for several days & most of the rust loosened but still left a kind of dirty orange residue. What I can reach can be wiped off with a finger - unfortunately, I can reach very little of it so I decided to give a try to Evapo-Rust, which is prohibitively expensive at $26 a gallon. Instructions say to fill the tank to the top but that's 3.5 gallons... Yikes! I bought 1 gallon. Other forum threads say you don't have to fill the tank & can just change position every few hours. Not sure how to stop flash rust on the part that I already soaked while I soak another part.
Thought I'd install the carb boots I bought & when I removed the old ones I found that there are gaskets behind them. If I had known this I would have ordered the gaskets when I bought the boots. Seems every time I try to do something on this bike I find another part that I should have ordered but now I have to wait several days to a week for it to arrive.
I don't want to wait so I guess I'll have to make my own gaskets. Think I have some gasket material somewhere.
Ordered a battery and installed it. Was supposed to arrive fully charged and ready to install. Was slightly less charged than they claimed - like 100%. It did accept a charge but since I don't have the bike running yet it discharges pretty quickly. Hoping once I get it going that it will continue to hold.
If the Evapo-Rust does well I'll be able to mount the gas tank & then put the carbs on.
Trying to set carb float level was very frustrating as I seem to get a different reading each time I try it. Directions say to measure the float at the point where the tang just begins to contact the top of the needle. Unfortunately, I can't see it well enough to tell just when that is. I finally turned the carb to a 45 degree angle and just took a reading there. Then I did the clear tube test. I'd feel better about it if I knew what I was doing but I decided that continuing with what I'm doing is not getting me anywhere so I'm gonna just put it together and see if it runs.
The T that goes between the carbs for gas feed has a nick on the end so I looked at some previous threads about that and it seems like everyone has a different opinion. I'd order a new one but some folks said their new ones leaked so not sure I want to do that. When I was doing the clear tube test I wound some electrical tape around the end to keep it from leaking long enough to do the test. Guess I'll see if it works in real life.
The fun continues! Will post an update after I see how the Evapo-Rust does.
So I spent several days trying to find suitable screws to replace those I lost for the gas cap. One of the experimental screws I tried to insert broke off and I had to drill it out. At that point I figured it was easier to just take it completely apart. Fun & games getting it back together. I did finally get it together and it doesn't leak but Damn! it's hard to close and takes 2 hands to open: 1 to push down and the other to turn the key.
Been trying to de-rust my gas tank. It wasn't too bad but needed some help. Tried vinegar for several days & most of the rust loosened but still left a kind of dirty orange residue. What I can reach can be wiped off with a finger - unfortunately, I can reach very little of it so I decided to give a try to Evapo-Rust, which is prohibitively expensive at $26 a gallon. Instructions say to fill the tank to the top but that's 3.5 gallons... Yikes! I bought 1 gallon. Other forum threads say you don't have to fill the tank & can just change position every few hours. Not sure how to stop flash rust on the part that I already soaked while I soak another part.
Thought I'd install the carb boots I bought & when I removed the old ones I found that there are gaskets behind them. If I had known this I would have ordered the gaskets when I bought the boots. Seems every time I try to do something on this bike I find another part that I should have ordered but now I have to wait several days to a week for it to arrive.
I don't want to wait so I guess I'll have to make my own gaskets. Think I have some gasket material somewhere.
Ordered a battery and installed it. Was supposed to arrive fully charged and ready to install. Was slightly less charged than they claimed - like 100%. It did accept a charge but since I don't have the bike running yet it discharges pretty quickly. Hoping once I get it going that it will continue to hold.
If the Evapo-Rust does well I'll be able to mount the gas tank & then put the carbs on.
Trying to set carb float level was very frustrating as I seem to get a different reading each time I try it. Directions say to measure the float at the point where the tang just begins to contact the top of the needle. Unfortunately, I can't see it well enough to tell just when that is. I finally turned the carb to a 45 degree angle and just took a reading there. Then I did the clear tube test. I'd feel better about it if I knew what I was doing but I decided that continuing with what I'm doing is not getting me anywhere so I'm gonna just put it together and see if it runs.
The T that goes between the carbs for gas feed has a nick on the end so I looked at some previous threads about that and it seems like everyone has a different opinion. I'd order a new one but some folks said their new ones leaked so not sure I want to do that. When I was doing the clear tube test I wound some electrical tape around the end to keep it from leaking long enough to do the test. Guess I'll see if it works in real life.
The fun continues! Will post an update after I see how the Evapo-Rust does.
I've always measured and set floats with the carbs upside down and the float resting on the float needle. It will depress the spring-loaded pin a little, but not fully. Clear tube tests afterward pretty much always verify the fuel levels are correct. The tube reads right at or slightly below the joint between the bowl and carb body.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Thanks Fiver! That's pretty much what mine looked like. Who knows, maybe this'll work!!!
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Did 2 hours on each side with Evapo-Rust & 2 hours upside down. What I could see afterwards was very clean with just the tiniest traces of discoloration in a couple of places. I bought a little flexible mirror, sort of like a dentist uses, so I could see at least part of the top of the tank. Still hard to see much but I really didn't see anything of concern. Drained the E-R & flushed out with copious amounts of water, per the instructions. Cranked up the compressor & fitted the air nozzle, then gave it about 15 minutes of blowing all the air I could into the tank. Removed the petcock so that all water & air could flow freely. When I thought it was as dry as I could reasonably get it I put the petcock back on and put about half a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in the tank. Shook it all around to make sure it got into every nook and cranny. Tomorrow I will drain the Mystery Oil and fill the tank with gasoline.
Now all I have to do is finish carb assembly which amounts to putting in the butterfly valves and tightening everything up. Oh, and install the carb boots and my homemade gaskets. The throttle cable was rusted clean through so I'll have to make a new cable. I have several that look like the right length but this one is round on both ends so I'll have to doctor up one of the ends to have a round piece. Saw a video where a guy just drilled the correct size hole in a board, stuck the cable end in & then filled it up with melted solder. Guess I'll see if I can make that work.
I'll post an update as things progress.
Now all I have to do is finish carb assembly which amounts to putting in the butterfly valves and tightening everything up. Oh, and install the carb boots and my homemade gaskets. The throttle cable was rusted clean through so I'll have to make a new cable. I have several that look like the right length but this one is round on both ends so I'll have to doctor up one of the ends to have a round piece. Saw a video where a guy just drilled the correct size hole in a board, stuck the cable end in & then filled it up with melted solder. Guess I'll see if I can make that work.
I'll post an update as things progress.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Oh Boy! I shoulda known that I only thought I was making progress. So I'm ready to gas up. Early on I pulled the filter from the petcock so I wouldn't have to be banging it around every time I put the petcock on or took it off - which was a bunch, so now I'm ready to put the filter back in and put the petcock on for the last (?) time before filling with gas. Except the filter won't stay in the petcock hole. Pretty sure I'm putting it in correctly with the little tangs on the bottom. Seems like when I removed the thing it was in there firmly but now I put it in and it falls over. I don't think there was any kind of gasket or spacer. WTF!
I think the side with the pipe inside goes on the right but I tried it both ways and it's the same either way. If I install the petcock with the filter like this it's gonna fall out the first time I hit a bump... Maybe the first time I fire it up.
If I turn it 180 degrees and put in the end without tangs it does fit snugly but that can't be right because there'd be no holes for gas to pass through. Besides, what would be the point of having tangs on the top?
I measured the depth of the opening and the filter does appear to be going in all the way. Just doesn't want to stay there. I can't believe I'm stalled because of a failing fuel filter...
Has anyone ever had this happen? Maybe it's the little demon that lives in my head. I know he likes to play tricks on me & then laugh his ass off. Pretty sure he's having a rollicking good time on this project.
I think the side with the pipe inside goes on the right but I tried it both ways and it's the same either way. If I install the petcock with the filter like this it's gonna fall out the first time I hit a bump... Maybe the first time I fire it up.
If I turn it 180 degrees and put in the end without tangs it does fit snugly but that can't be right because there'd be no holes for gas to pass through. Besides, what would be the point of having tangs on the top?
I measured the depth of the opening and the filter does appear to be going in all the way. Just doesn't want to stay there. I can't believe I'm stalled because of a failing fuel filter...
Has anyone ever had this happen? Maybe it's the little demon that lives in my head. I know he likes to play tricks on me & then laugh his ass off. Pretty sure he's having a rollicking good time on this project.
Let the filter sit in some gas for a bit, it'll swell. On some I've taken a bit of pop can and made a shim so the filter is snug in the hole. Also there is a front and back. IE one half is for the reserve.
This varies through the years? some years there should be a metal reserve stand pipe as part of the petcock? Damned memory.
This varies through the years? some years there should be a metal reserve stand pipe as part of the petcock? Damned memory.
I use a bit of J B Weld to hold 'em in.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Thanks guys. Gary, I'm gonna try soaking in gas & if that doesn't work I'll use a shim. No pop cans around here but I might be able to find an empty beer container. Thanks for suggesting the shim. I've used them before on a slightly oversize bolt hole but didn't think of it for this application. Worked great for the plastic fork protector on my dirt bike. Yes. I know the filter goes in a certain way & it appears that it depends on what year the bike is. For mine, Reserve is on the right side so the pipe goes on that side... I think.
Jim, if all else fails I'll try JB Weld.
So after having the Marvel Mystery Oil that I drained from the tank sit overnight I noticed there's some dirt in the bottom of the container. That's not supposed to happen so I think I'm going to do another round of Evapo-Rust. Maybe give it more than 2 hours a side this time.
But in the case that I am not able to get ALL of the junk out of the tank I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for an in-line fuel filter besides the standard round ones that only filter down to 5 microns, or do you think those are sufficient?
Jim, if all else fails I'll try JB Weld.
So after having the Marvel Mystery Oil that I drained from the tank sit overnight I noticed there's some dirt in the bottom of the container. That's not supposed to happen so I think I'm going to do another round of Evapo-Rust. Maybe give it more than 2 hours a side this time.
But in the case that I am not able to get ALL of the junk out of the tank I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for an in-line fuel filter besides the standard round ones that only filter down to 5 microns, or do you think those are sufficient?
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Haven't posted for a while because I'm not really making much progress. Pretty sure I ordered 4 of the butterfly shaft seals but when I went to assemble it I could only find 2. Ordered online & now waiting. They said shipped after 3 days but it's 9 days today and still nothing in my mailbox so it'll be at least Monday.
I did put beer can shims in to make the petcock filter fit snugly and the 2nd round of Evapo-Rust cleaned up the remaining crud pretty well. It did start to flash rust some though before I could get the petcock installed and fill it with gas. Not too bad I think & doing another Evapo-Rust session would start feeling like I'm going in circles.
Meanwhile, I took apart the front master cylinder and found a nasty surprise. The lines cleaned out fairly easy with some air pressure but the master cylinder is very gunked up. Looking on ebay I see a lot of master cylinders priced lower than a rebuild kit for mine. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with these. They look OK and there are sure a lot of them for sale. Seems like there'd be some bad reviews if they were junk. Yeah, I know I should stick with Yamaha but if these others work then it'd be a lot easier than trying to clean up what I have, and cheaper too. Prices for a new master cylinder on Mikes range from $80-$120 & on ebay about $17.
One question: other threads I've seen about the master cylinder talk about 12mm, 13mm & so on. Is this referring to piston size? The banjo bolt on mine is only 8.5mm. Haven't removed the piston since I can't find a circlip pliers small enough to fit. I know I had one once...
The other thing I thought of is seeing if I can find something on ebay with a Nissin master cylinder. I think I could feel pretty confident in anything of that brand... Might not have a brake light connection though.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
I did put beer can shims in to make the petcock filter fit snugly and the 2nd round of Evapo-Rust cleaned up the remaining crud pretty well. It did start to flash rust some though before I could get the petcock installed and fill it with gas. Not too bad I think & doing another Evapo-Rust session would start feeling like I'm going in circles.
Meanwhile, I took apart the front master cylinder and found a nasty surprise. The lines cleaned out fairly easy with some air pressure but the master cylinder is very gunked up. Looking on ebay I see a lot of master cylinders priced lower than a rebuild kit for mine. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with these. They look OK and there are sure a lot of them for sale. Seems like there'd be some bad reviews if they were junk. Yeah, I know I should stick with Yamaha but if these others work then it'd be a lot easier than trying to clean up what I have, and cheaper too. Prices for a new master cylinder on Mikes range from $80-$120 & on ebay about $17.
One question: other threads I've seen about the master cylinder talk about 12mm, 13mm & so on. Is this referring to piston size? The banjo bolt on mine is only 8.5mm. Haven't removed the piston since I can't find a circlip pliers small enough to fit. I know I had one once...
The other thing I thought of is seeing if I can find something on ebay with a Nissin master cylinder. I think I could feel pretty confident in anything of that brand... Might not have a brake light connection though.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Yes 11-13mm refers to the bore/piston size not the banjo bolt thread. I try to buy and stock for my own use the master cylinders from several Yamaha dual purpose bikes that have an 11mm bore, the correct mirror thread and use the same brake light switch as the stock MC.
I have cleaned up and reused many "really gunked up" stock MC's, often no parts needed. I will go in and smooth the bore with 1000 or 1500 grit on a dowel split lengthwise to hold the paper. It is a pain to find a circlip pliers that fits. After years of using one I ground to fit "way down there" I finally bought a deep clip ring pliers which I am fairly happy with.
I have not had any issues with flash rust bothering carbs, I don't add fuel filters, just retain the stock ones.
I have cleaned up and reused many "really gunked up" stock MC's, often no parts needed. I will go in and smooth the bore with 1000 or 1500 grit on a dowel split lengthwise to hold the paper. It is a pain to find a circlip pliers that fits. After years of using one I ground to fit "way down there" I finally bought a deep clip ring pliers which I am fairly happy with.
I have not had any issues with flash rust bothering carbs, I don't add fuel filters, just retain the stock ones.
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Yes, master cylinder sizes refer to the piston. Stock for your model was 14mm and a little big. It works OK but doesn't give much "feel" or modulation. Going to a smaller size (11mm - 13mm) will help with that. If you are replacing yours, might as well improve things by going slightly smaller. Like Gary, I like to use MC's from other Yamahas for the reasons he mentioned. I have an 11mm on one of my 650's, a 1/2" (12.7mm) on the other. The 11mm gives better "feel" and modulation but at the expense of more lever travel.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
I'll add that it really helps to free up the circlip before trying to remove it. It's usually stuck in place by rust and "glop". A scribe or other fine pointed stiff tool worked into the hole on each end of the clip and "wiggled around" to break the clip free of rust/gunk in the slot makes the extraction with a circlip pliers much easier.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Thanks guys! Is there a way to know when I see a master cylinder from another Yamaha model what the bore size is?
Thanks Gary! Great idea!
Thanks Gary! Great idea!
TW200 TTR225 and several others work, with the smaller bore, SS line, and proper bleeding you'll be glad you did.
This one isn't cheap but it's the right kind.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3839032321...26a7087:g:1cAAAOSwvfZgALXf&LH_ItemCondition=4
I've scored them for as little as $25.00 I'm sure 5twins has got them even cheaper.
A scribe like this is handy for lots of work.
This one isn't cheap but it's the right kind.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3839032321...26a7087:g:1cAAAOSwvfZgALXf&LH_ItemCondition=4
I've scored them for as little as $25.00 I'm sure 5twins has got them even cheaper.
A scribe like this is handy for lots of work.
bul_racer
XS650 Addict
Anyone know if this will work on my 1980 xs650?
https://www.boats.net/product/yamah...MIm4OI37_k8gIVy_nACh0_cgF4EAEYASABEgKbEPD_BwE
https://www.boats.net/product/yamah...MIm4OI37_k8gIVy_nACh0_cgF4EAEYASABEgKbEPD_BwE
No it's not even close to how an XS650 stand fits, mounts?
Used center stands for 76 up are dime a dozen.
Used center stands for 76 up are dime a dozen.
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