Butterfly flap screws

apox

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I'm gonna totally tear down the carbs and let them soak a while, but I've run into a problem. I can't remove or even budge the little screws that hold the butterfly flaps in place. Without those out there is still some plastic and stuff that won't do nicely in a toxic bath!

I've almost stripped one, don't know what to do!
 
This is a post by "grizld1" I believe, from a few years ago:

Throttle Shaft Seals

BS38 (70-79) and BS34 (80-83) throttle shafts have a rubber seal at each end. Before attempting to replace the seals, remove the throttle shaft springs and check the shaft for play. If it's wobbly, new seals may work for awhile, but the pivot area in the throttle body is worn. Replacement is cheaper, but motorcyclecarbs.com remanufactures to spec.

Mike's XS lists seals for the BS38 but excludes the BS34 from the application list. For the purposes of this article, I dismantled a BS34 from a 1982 machine. Comparing its seals to a new one sold by Mike's for the BS38 showed no visible differences--same seal type, depth, and diameters. The reason for the exclusion may simply be that for some inscrutable reason the seal was not shown in XS650 parts books from 1980 on, and Mike's has followed that lead.

To remove the throttle shaft for seal replacement, the throttle plate must be removed. If you open a throttle and look at the back of the throttle shaft, you'll notice that the tips of the screws protruding from it are cross-hatched. They've been staked--that is, deformed slightly to prevent them from backing out, entering the intake port, and tearing up more stuff than you even want to think about just now. They're brass, so it's very easy to destroy the head, and removal is usually troublesome.

Your chances are improved by using the right tool and controlling the workpiece. First, note the orientation of the throttle plate, and mark the shaft for its exact position. If you're rebuilding more than one carb, keep the throttle plates paired to them. Set the carb spigot-up in a carefully padded vice, with the slide removed and the back of the throttle shaft supported--a wood or plastic screwdriver handle minus the shaft or a piece of large wooden rod works well. Choose a screwdriver with a precise fit to the screws, give it a light but firm tap to seat it, and use both hands to apply a short, sharp push-and-twist. This will usually break the screw loose. If the screw does not break free, try heating the area with a hair dryer or soldering iron (not a torch or high-temp heat gun!) and quenching with penetrating oil from a spray can. Back it out two-handed, applying downward force as you turn, until the staked brass cleans itself up in the steel threads of the shaft and turns easily. If the screws must be drilled out, bear in mind that a trip to the machine shop will be cheaper than new carburetors.

Member Fry posted an excellent tip on removing the screws. After carefully drilling the screw heads and removing throttle springs and stops so that the plates would rotate fully, he was able to grip the staked tips of the screws with needlenose pliers and back them out. Thanks, Fry!

When you reassemble, use blue Loctite and restake the screws with locking pliers (Visegrips) or waterpump pliers (Channel Locks).

My own comments:

The regular phillips screwdriver tip is too pointed for those screws. Its very important to have the screwdriver tip go fully into the screw recess. I have blunted the tips of my screwdrivers and they will fit much better.
 
I use a #1 T handled screwdriver, about $9 from Motion Pro. I grind the staked end down 1st with a Dremel. I replace the old screws with new ones. I've taken quite a few apart and this method hasn't failed me yet. In other words, I've never had to resort to drilling them out.
 
I've drilled four or five. After you drill the heads off you can use a smaller bit to turn them out the bottom. They make an tappered allen head screw you can replace them with.
 
I think in the post by RG about what Grizld1 says about steel threads in the shaft isn't correct. The ones I've had apart the shaft is chrome plated brass.
I grind the staked part of the screw off too. Then replace the screws.
 
XSLeo you are saying you have found chrome plated brass throttle shafts?
I've only seen steel.
 
I've got 11 shafts, (8 in carbs) BS34. I just looked at them all and all are steel. I did notice that some of the screws are dome head, not flush, but none are staked. I've boogered a couple screw heads, but they still came out ok.
 
Mine are tight as hell I may have to drill one. Gonna soak in some penetrating oil tonight and try the other ones. Does mikes not sell the screws? I didn't see them. Doesn't sell the plates or shafts either lol.. Better hope i don't botch the screw out job.
 
Ya.. In Canada although our standard units are metric every friggen hardware store has a retardedly limited selection of metric stuff, tons of imperial though... The closest I came to getting nylon screws in metric was ordering a bag of 100 from some bolt manufacturer.
 
HF sells a 1/4" drive hand impact that might be ideal for this. Back the shaft up with a long piece of wood or the first hit will destroy everything.... File the tip of the bit if necessary the minimum amount that lets it fill the slots.
 
I don't think I'd be hitting it with a hammer backed up or not. But thats just me.

littlebill31, Look for stake dimples like these on the bottom of the screw shaft.
The single dimple on the top identifies it as a JIS (Japenese Industrail Standard) screw.
 

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Mine must have all been replaced. No stake marks or dimples. Only 7 of my bunch of screws are domed. The rest are tapered head, not domed and none are marked. Probably why they were easy to get out. I used a little blue loctite to secure them.
 
I've seen originals in both domed (technically called "oval") and flat head type. Mike's sells replacements, the flat head style, $2.50 a 4 pack. The size is a standard M3 but the length is rather odd, about 7mm. They may have started out as 8s and the staking made them shorter. I opted to get replacements in quantity and in stainless, about $5 for 100 .....

ButterflyScrews.jpg


I chose the 8s but haven't had much luck trying to stake the ends. Instead, I grip the exposed thread portion with needle nose vice grips and bugger the threads up so the screws can't back out. I just couldn't bring myself to pay .62 a screw when I can get them for 5 cents, lol. I've used probably a dozen so far so what I saved has already payed for the bag.
 
Yes, brass. I first saw that when grinding off the staked part of the screws and ground the shaft a bit. The one in my hand I didn't nick, but you can see the brass on the end where the throttle links hook on. The threads where the nut threads on isn't plated. A magnet won't stick to it.
 
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