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Cam Chain

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by OHRider, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. OHRider

    OHRider XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I am getting ready to put my motor back together. First time for me. Can the cam chain be riveted before or does it need to be done after the head and cam are installed?

    Thanks
    Al
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  2. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Now THAT is an interesting question.....

    I will state at the outset that I have never dealt with the XS650 cam chain but it seems to me that since quite a few people take it off by slipping the cam support bearings off the end of the camshaft and THEN removing the cam - this might be possible.

    The only fly in the ointment (that I can see) is that you would need to have the crankshaft out of the lower cases as well....
     
    OHRider likes this.
  3. OHRider

    OHRider XS650 Addict XS650.com Supporter

    I did split the cases.
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  4. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Okey doke - then.....:popcorn:
     
  5. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    You can take the cam chain off and put it back on, so I don't see why you couldn't rivet it first and then put it on :)
     
    MaxPete and robinc like this.
  6. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Only warning would be it loops through something in the back, rear guide if I remember, and that is hard to remove (big Phillips screws) so you might want to loop it through there first.
     
    robinc likes this.
  7. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    It sure would make the riveting operation easier, I'd guess.
     
  8. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    It seems like I've seen pics of it being done on, which might be the origin of the question. Maybe with certain tools it's easier on.
     
  9. billy icon

    billy icon test pilot,gunnie pig, and all around experiment

    I was going to start a new thread, but I chose this one as it isn't 5 years old, and I also see a lot of people I have come to know of here, so as many of you know As soon as I get the parts together, Im going to document a complete engine build from the ground up, checking all tolerances that there are to check, and I hope everyone joins in the "fun"... anyhow Im looking to get a new timing chain and I saw this one for 20.00 dollars vs the 60 dollar ones Im used to seeing, anyone had any experience with these???

    also I have a few timing chains around in my parts box, and Im wondering if anyone knows how to "test" or meashure to see if a factory one I have is any good, I would prefere to use a factory one as Im sure the quality is higher,
    My idea of how to check and see if the chain is worn is to take a camshaft that has never been timed (I.E. factory installed gear that's never been moved) and then try and install the camshaft and see if the marks are off by any degrees, I do see a problem with this method and that is that the differences in head gasket thicknees may alter this diagnosis some what, I would assume that using a used head gasket for the "test" would be the best way to test and see if the factory chain is stretched...

    I am going to be using a thicker than normal 3 layer steel head gasket for a 750 cylinder, AND im going to be using a xs1 (256) camshaft with a xs650 (447) cam gear, so I will be able to degree the cam where it needs to be (see my thread xs1 valve springs cam specs maybe) there is a great deal of imformation ther about the proper cam degree (timing) for those interested (thanks to "to many xs1s), anyways here is a link to the 19 dollar cam chain, everyone let me know what you think,, and I think in about another month I will start the engine build thread, I want it to continue smoothly so it will be like a mini series for us xs junkies, and we all know attention span is short so I don't want more than 3 days between "episodes"
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/KMC-219-10...361232?hash=item2a9d296150:g:otkAAOSwkNpaYTUF


    thanks everyone
     
    gggGary likes this.
  10. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    There is no OE "factory" chain anywhere on a Yamaha 650, unless the factory you're referring to is DID or Tsubaki.
     
  11. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    That listing shows their camchain to have,
    "Average Tensile Stength (kgf):850".

    Compare to this DID-219 table.

    DID-219-ChainDims.jpg

    Myself, I prefer straight sideplates over the "peanut" plates.

    But, I only have experience with the '256' world.

    Edit: An impromptu chain test is to wrap it fully around the sprocket, see if it fits snug or loose...
     
    billy icon likes this.
  12. Grimly

    Grimly XS650 Addict

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    I haven't got mine stripped for the inevitable camchain replacement that will accompany the refreshing of the camchain guides, but I was hoping there would be an allowable length measurement to check for stretch, as in, for example, the Suzuki GS manuals.
    Their manuals state that 20 links must measure no more than x-amount when laid out on a bench and pulled straight. It's a fairly easy pass/fail test.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  13. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    I am prone to use inexpensive drive chains (o-ring) but they are very accessible and easy to change, cam chains not so much.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs, billy icon and Jim like this.
  14. billy icon

    billy icon test pilot,gunnie pig, and all around experiment

    wow ToMany, you have a lot of DATA to share I love it, and I should have thought about the wrap around the gear test, that's basically how I test my draive chains, do you know which one of those DID chains on the chart is for an xs 650, I assume all of them but if you purchased on online do you know what one you would get, if its the first the 19 dollar one is actually stronger,....

    never mind that question about the chart, just purchased a DID FTS.S I paid 31.00 and 6.00 shipping from Germany not to bad I think, I did notice it doesn't have a FTSS on that chart, but the other FTS DHA and the FTS1 both have a tensile strength of 910 kgf,... I don't know what the strength difference is between 850 and 920 really is, the did does NOT have the peanut side plates..... TWO things come to mind here that may apply to this build, and I maybe going way overboard in my thought process, but here we go lol
    1 I MIGHT use stronger valve springs, since I have two sets of them here in me parts bucket, and would stronger springs put more LOAD on the cam chain?? it does in my mind, chime in with yals opinion,
    2 the peanut style side plates seem like they would make the chain much lighter and again in my "MIND DYNO":umm: wouldn't that reduce spinning weight in the engine and give some added ability to rev faster??? even if it was minuscule
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and gggGary like this.
  15. Raymondo

    Raymondo XS650 owner, fettler, setting out on a journey Top Contributor

    Barely 2C worth but from my limited experience many moons ago with an SR500 I wouldn't worry about stronger valve springs putting more load on the cam chain which should be well able to cope. But they put enough extra load on the cam followers/rockers that the hardened faces wore though.

    I didn't fit the stronger springs to cope with higher revs but to follow a much lumpier cam shaft, a Kenny Harman drag race item. The bike really motored with that set up. For a while . . .
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and gggGary like this.

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