Clutch and Transmission crazies

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davem222

davem222
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Hey guys,
So I THOUGHT I had my new build all done. Took it out for it's first ride on Tuesday and she rode like a champ. City driving here in LA, but all around town. Then, about half way through, all of a sudden a few things happened. First off, in first gear, when I try to engage the clutch, it feels like it doesn't really catch, in fact, at low rpm from a stop it stalls out. It also has a whiring, slipping sound. Then I can't find neutral, and not like it's hard to find, it's simply not there. I can get it in a place between first and second where it'll roll, but the neutral is not there. Second and third are better but getting there is problematic to say the least. I went out this morn to readjust the clutch cable, nada. My concern is that something broke in the transmission itself (like a dog broke off or something). I haven't opened up the left side cover yet and inspected the worm gear and cable link to worm gear but that's my next move. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks.

Dave
 
I have 20w-50 in there and it's non-synthetic motorcycle oil. I already adjusted the clutch at the left hand cover and at the clutch lever (slackened it at the lever, loosened the retaining bolt on the left hand cover, turned CW until it just catches and then back CCW 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Then tightened retaining bolt and screwed the lever adjuster out for 1/4" free play)

So I don't think it's either of those things, right?
 
My bike totally starts pulling at stops after it gets warm but it's an original clutch with about 14k on it. I'm eager to see if the one I just rebuilt acts differently when I get the chance to put it in my frame. I did upgrade the thrust washer which is supposed to make a difference, but I'm out of ideas as to why it would otherwise work well, then not work well after the ride.
 
I don't know. The bottom end is the one thing I didn't touch on this bike from the PO. It would kick (and I'd hear a small slap) as I put it into first from neutral (I've only taken it on a few short rides) and when I posed that question here on the forum most people said it was fine and they experienced the same thing. My terrible fear is that my transmission is slipping, not my clutch because I've somehow horribly damaged the transmission. I suppose the next thing I'll do is open up the left cover and take a look at the worm assembly and after that, if it doesn't work, start to learn about the clutch and maybe upgrade/replace parts?

Anyone have any thoughts re my suspicions or methodology?

Dave
 
I just had my tranny all apart. I don't see how the actual tranny could slip (instead of the actual clutch) because it's those 2 tightly packed rods of gears. I think your clutch isn't disengaging enough is all. Why it changed? That I don't know.
 
I am by all means a novice, but I think you may be right. I just took off the left side cover and it seems the worm gear is working fine.

New info: I just noticed that when I pull the clutch lever in, and SLOWLY start to push the shift lever down with my left foot, I get to a point where there is a loud clicking, as though the gears were still engaged and hitting tranny gear against tranny gear because (as you said) the clutch isn't disengaged.

So I think I'm going to have to open up the basket and take a look. If anyone has any idea as to what I should necessarily look for, let me know. Thanks.

Dave
 
Dave try backing the worm gear adjustment off only an 1/8 and alittle thinner gap at the perch like the thickness of a nickle.
 
Often as it warms up the clutch adjustment changes. Hot needs to be tighter thancold.
Leo
 
Weekendrider: I tried it, same results as before.
Leo: I hear that but whether it's hot or cold I have the same prob unfortunately.

What's strange is:
1) no click into neutral at all. Just a smooth easy nether region between 1st and 2nd.
2) when I pull in the clutch lever and start to press down on the shifter, there's a clicking, something clearly hitting into something else (ie even though the bike rolls freely something's still engaged).
3) if I get past the clicking and jam it into first and then start to let the clutch lever out the bike catches fine, but when the lever is fully out there some weird slipping and sputtering and it can stall the bike if I'm going too slow.

All this plus the fact that it WAS riding fine and the just went all strange means that unless something just snapped off in the clutch or on the tranny, I'm kinda baffled (but I'm a novice so I'm easily baffled).

If anyone has any guidance that would keep me from opening up my clutch and feeling around like a blind idiot, please let me know.

Dave
 
What might have broke was a spring. The shifter you push with your foot is hooked to a shift shaft. This shift shaft goes through the engine cases to the right side. This shaft has an arm on it that reaches up to the top of the case and has a spring loaded arm that enggages the shift drum. If this spring breaks the arm comes unhooked from the drum and then it can't turn the drum.
You need to pull the right side cover to inspect this spring. There is also an arm on the shift drum that holds a roller against the pins on the drum. A spring holds this arm/roller against the pins. This spring can break too.
In the Clymer book page 80 is a pic of the shift shaft arms, called change lever 1 and change lever 2. The spring between the two is the one talked about. It also tells how to check the adjustment and how to do the asdjustment of the shift shaft on that page too.
On page 92 is a pic of the shift drum. part #28 is the spring that can break too.
Oh, drian the oil first, makes a mess if you don't.
Leo
 
Wow that is awesome Leo, thanks! I just ordered the Haynes Manual (as I've read that it's a tad better than Clymer) and don't have the Clymer. Here's hoping it's in the Haynes as well :)

Dave
 
These are the two little springs you'll need to inspect. It will be pretty obvious if one's broken .....

ShiftSprings.jpg
 
Well scratch that last post. I don't need those two springs. I opened it up today and the springs are fine. Also, the clutch itself seems fine to my very novice eyes. The only problem is that 2 of the dampener springs on the clutch basket/primary gear are broken (3 o'clock and 11 o'clock in the picture). Could those springs be the problem? Based on my very basic knowledge of clutches I can't see how it would be, right?

So ok, the problem isn't broken shift lever springs. I don't THINK the problem I'm experiencing is due to those broken hub dampener springs (which I'll repair or get a new basket anyway). So what the heck could it be? Anyone have any thoughts?

Dave
 

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