clutch is impossibly hard to pull.

[ehjun]

how difficult is the clutch supposed to be to pull?

im trying to go through and replace everything thats not gonna work perfectly before i try to start my barn find. its my first bike and up until today i couldnt even move the clutch. i pulled off the LH cover and cleaned everything and lubricated the mechanism that pushes on the clutch rod but i still cant pull the lever while holding the handlebars. would a new cable help?

also despite being a barn find, the oil in the motor looks brand new. the only way it could possibly be cleaner is if it was in a bottle. should i still change it?

 

[XSLeo]

Change the oil, it's cheaper than an engine rebuild.
These old bikes clutch pull is about the same as most bikes of that era. A bit more than most new bikes. My "03 Harley is much easier and feels much better, a wider sweet spot. I have pulled the clutch levers on many new bikes in the showroom and often wonder if they hook to anything.
The cable may be bad. Unhook it from both ends. Try puling the inner cable out on both ends, it should pull both ways fairly easily. If not it needs lubing.
I use the oil and funnel method. Make a funnel out of kitchen foil. Or anything else you might have. Fill the funnel with oil. I like 3in1 oil. A light weight motor oil works too. With both ends unhooked hold the lever end up. Tie it off to something so the funnel stays upright. Working the inner cable in out helps pull the oil through. Once oil comes out the bottom, it's lubed.
Even lube a brand new cable before you install it, most don't come lubed.
If you can't get it lubed and moving freely, replace it. On the worm mechanism in the left side cover the inner part unscrews from the outer. Watch where it sets before you remove it, watch the position as it comes apart. You want to know this to get it back together right. Clean both parts very well. Inspect for damage, the nylon part can crack.
Generously grease with general purpose grease. Like what you use in your grease gun. Reassemble the inner into the outer.
Properly adjust the worm then the cable at the lever. The way the repair manual describes is a good place to start. I do a bit more than the book says, when you loosen the lock nut and back off the screw I like to turn it out a few turns and spin it in/out a few times to get a good feel for how much it takes to turn the screw.
Now as you turn the screw in you will know better just when you feel an increase in resistance. This is the point you have removed the free play from the system. You now need to add some free play back in. The book calls for 1/4 turn, I use a bit less, Watch the nut, it will turn with the screw, turn it back one flat of the nut. Now holding the screw snug the nut down.
Follow the rest of the steps as the book calls for.
This will get the lever to pull as easy as it's gonna get.
Proper lube and proper adjustment works wonders.
Leo

 

[scabber]

A new cable will help if the cable is the problem. The hand control lever should move freely with the cable disconnected. Check and oil the pivot point. With the cover off does it move? Lube the cable it might help. Drain oil and check the sump filter also the filter in the right side cover.

 

[ehjun]

@xsleo i will try all that! thanks

@scabber with the cover off the lever and everything moves freely. the only thing slightly off about it is that the return spring doesnt have enough force to return it to the neutral position with the cover off. not sure if that matters though since the clutch springs will return the lever just fine.

also are there any off the shelf hydraulic options?

 

[weekendrider]

Contact ippytatto about the hydraulic conversion.
He has a thread in the shop section.

 

[ippytattoo]

Thanks for the support WER.

ehjun, I have not found any off the shelf hydraulic conversions for the xs so I followed the lead of another member here on the forum (osteoderm) and adapted an Aprilia system to the xs which I offer as both a service and as a kit if you are comfortable with a little machine work. If you are interested let me know. I will be able to take on the service as long as I recieve the cover in the next couple of weeks but after that they may be on hold for a few months as I am going to be moving the first part of June.

Clayton

 

[gggGary]

The clutch push rod has to be installed with the necked down end facing out at the worm gear. make sure the "captive" ball bearing is still inside the worm gear.

This thread covers about everything there is to know about worm gears.

It is kinda common for strands to break inside the clutch cable due to rust and age. The cable may work fine and free UNTIL it's under stress, then the strands unwind and bind.

 

[jay760]

If it has been standing for a long time there is every possibility that the clutch plates are rusted together, even with nice clean oil the top part of the clutch is open to air and over a long period will bind together, might pay to pop the right cover off to have a look.

Did the cable move freely when the left cover was off?

 

[XSLeo]

One thing I forgot. The cable needs to be routed with as straight a run as possible. No tight bends.
Leo

 

[ehjun]

@jay, the cable moved freely with the lh cover off. i wanted to check if the clutch plates are stuck together. is there fluid inside the right cover? also do i need to drain the oil to take the side filter out? or will it just leak fluids everywhere?

@xsleo the cable is routed in the factor position at the moment.

@gggg i did not change the position of the clutch push rod. i will go over the worm gear again

@ippy im sending you a pm

 

[jay760]

Yes there is engine oil behind this case, I normally lie the bike over on a degree 45 angle against a wall or bench and put a rag between the engine and frame to catch what oil does come out, shouldn't be much as it's all in the lowest part of the engine, you don't need to take the filter out, the casing will come off without removing the filter, just have to be careful to hold the kickstart in as you pull the case off otherwise you will have that to deal with as well.
I do this fairly often as my clutch gets a lot of abuse and burns the plain plates, I normally grease the gasket when I put it back together helps it come apart a bit better without the gasket sticking to the casings.

 

[ehjun]

I'm guessing that if the plates are rusted together I'm gonna need a new pack correct?

 

[scabber]

I would buy a new cable motion pro or E Z pull from 650 central . I have a new Mikes cable I bought by mistake. Inferior product prone to breaking I haven't used it. Free if you dare to use. Like gggGarry said about fraying the aluminum elbow is a bind point and Not un common for a fray. A new good cable properly maintained is good insurance you won't have problems later.The Aprilla system better yet.

 

[jay760]

I'm guessing that if the plates are rusted together I'm gonna need a new pack correct?

No I reuse them just clean the plane plates up, look for bluing on them from if they have got hot in the past, they will be distorted and your clutch will slip if they have, just make sure you line the hole up on the pressure plate with the indent on the basket when it goes back together.

 

[member3480]

If the bike has been sitting for a long while you are going to have to pull out the book and read the clutch section and take it apart. Sometime you can get lucky and just clean and relube the parts and put it back together. But from past experience of many barn finds bearings dried up and bucket has rust on it. Do it right the first time and you will not be stuck on the side of the road. Check fiber plates/metal plates and springs and bearings. Don't know what year your bike is but here is a example.

 

[Johne]

Just posting this for anyone who has read this far with the same issue. I have a 79F. I had put in new clutch plates ensuring easy movement and slightly rounded the metal parts so they did not stick, new clutch cable, single push rod, new lever - and still my forearm and wrist felt like they were going to burst when I pulled the clutch in. Tried it for 3 months but no improvement. I now have it working with one finger. To get there I followed a range of advice from here. I took the cable off, made a funnel with foil and used light engine oil. Let it hand until the oil came out the bottom, occasionally moving the outer over the inner to help it along. I took the worm gear out, cleaned it and packed it with grease. I drilled a hole about 15mm or so (did not measure - just put it where it seemed sensible) further along the arm that moves the worm and attached the cable slot there so I got greater leverage when I pulled in the clutch. I bought a brass bush with an inner diameter the same as the bolt that holds the lever on the perch. I drilled out the lever the exact outer diameter of the bush and pushed the bush in the hole which seemed to make the lever movement smoother. I then re-installed the cable ensuring a smooth route. When I tried it, it was so easy I thought I had missed something or that the clutch wasn't moving, but a test ride was just so right and easy. It took me 3 months of prevarication, should have followed the advice earlier. Great forum, thanks to all who have posted advice.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Johne.......................yes making the lever arm longer will certainly make for an easier pull. The only drawback to that is that the clutch plates will not be able to separate as much as before. When your engine gets hot, I think you'll find that it will be almost impossible
to shift into neutral with the engine running. The stock design has barely enough plate separation as it is.

I did the opposite to you. I wanted more plate separation, so I drilled a new hole closer to the centre, so that made the lever shorter. It did require a little more effort to pull the lever, but it made it easy to shift into neutral with a hot engine.

Be sure to update us, as you get more riding time.

 

[gggGary]

Great follow up Johne! and a really good catch on the lever pivot. Made me feel bad I forgot to mention that I did the near identical thing several years ago. I now check that bolt bushing, on about every bike I work on and keep a stock of bushings to use when "fixing a worn pivot". Disassembling and lubing clutch and brake lever pivots is a frequently missed maintenance item.

 

[wrenchjohns]

read 2many's "experiments and tidbits" more information there than a little bit

 

[Johne]

Johne.......................yes making the lever arm longer will certainly make for an easier pull. The only drawback to that is that the clutch plates will not be able to separate as much as before. When your engine gets hot, I think you'll find that it will be almost impossible
to shift into neutral with the engine running. The stock design has barely enough plate separation as it is.

I did the opposite to you. I wanted more plate separation, so I drilled a new hole closer to the centre, so that made the lever shorter. It did require a little more effort to pull the lever, but it made it easy to shift into neutral with a hot engine.

Be sure to update us, as you get more riding time.

Wondered what the catch would be. Thanks for the heads up, I will keep and eye on it..