Clutch Perch is Almost out. Can I Cheat?

[littlebill31]

It's creeping forward in 1st with the clutch pulled in. I've adjusted the worm and perch correctly, but after my bike is good and warm I'm still having problems and I'm running out of perch screw.
So, can I adjust the worm to compensate? And, if so, would I tighten or loosen the worm?
It's adjusted to drag, then out a 1/4 turn.
Any ideas?
I'd like to get an idea of what to do before I loose my mind.....again.
Thanks all

 

[xjwmx]

You need to be able to push the plates further apart, so you'd screw it in. You need a shorter cable basically. I might tie an overhand knot in it under the cover to take up length While I was waiting on a new cable. You can put a new end on them if you want.

 

[littlebill31]

Thanks xjwmx! I put drag bars on and was hoping I wouldn't have to get a new cable,.....but.
That's why I said, "cheat", so I can ride a little to get some bugs worked out until I get a new cable.
Thanks again.

 

[XSLeo]

I use about 1/6 of a turn out on the screw. use the flats on the lock nut, one flat out from resistance.
It sounds like the cable is getting stretched out. If it's the stock cable, and probably is, a new one will fix it.
I had a simular problem on my 75. If you have a spare perch cable adjuster, take off the lock nut. Find a regular nut to fit. Get a tap that cuts a thread the same as the adjuster. The hole in the cover is just the right size to thread with the tap.
With the cable removed slip the adjuster on the cable, slip the nut on the cble and thread up on the adjuster. Thread the adjuster into the threaded hole in the cover. rehook the cable. Now with everything installed on the bike loosen the lever adjuster as much as you can, use the cover adjuster to set lever free play to about 1/4 to 3/8 inch. Use the lever adjuster to finish the adjustment.
You need the regular nut because the area around the cable hole isn't flat enough to use the large round lock nut of the adjuster.
Kinda like in tis pic.
Worked till I replaced the broken worm plastic part and a cable. I reccomend a Motion Pro cable. Much heavier inner cable than Mike's. The one 650central sells is a good one to.
Leo

 

[littlebill31]

Thanks Leo for the info.

 

[5twins]

Have you read the Minton Mods? He recommends doing the majority of your clutch adjustment with the worm gear and I agree. I set the freeplay at the hand lever to about 3/8" or 1/2" using the worm gear screw, then final adjust at the lever. I pay no mind to that factory recommendation of 1/4 turn back on the worm gear screw after rod contact.

 

[littlebill31]

I'm gonna try that. It makes sense. Of course with the forward controls now it becomes a little more challenging to "feel" the gear change. The length of the linkage makes it more sloppy. So having to adjust the clutch to make up for the slop is more important now.

 

[TeeCat]

Bill, I did as Leo suggested some time ago. I set the barrel adjuster (where the cable enters the case) equidistant, threadwise, and then do the worm gear and perch adjustments. The adjuster at the case end just gives me an additional means of taking more slack out of the cable or adding it (as needed), without overdoing it at the perch and having no perch left... effectively shortening the cable just that much more. It's just a little insurance.

TC

 

[XSLeo]

My case adjuster mod is not something everyone can do. This works mostly for an older stretched cable that is just to long to adjust with the lever adjuster. It will get another year or three out of the cable. Just be aware that you need a new cable.
If you put on a new cable you probably won't need the mod. I have heard some new cables are a bit long, so this mod can help them too.
If your new cable don't need it, it's easy to reverse, just take it out. The threads won't effect the new cable.
Leo

 

[nj1639]

Have you read the Minton Mods? He recommends doing the majority of your clutch adjustment with the worm gear and I agree. I set the freeplay at the hand lever to about 3/8" or 1/2" using the worm gear screw, then final adjust at the lever. I pay no mind to that factory recommendation of 1/4 turn back on the worm gear screw after rod contact.

From the Minton Mods @ 650 Central...
"There are two adjusters on the clutch cable. One is at the lever end and the other is at the bottom of the cable, where it runs into the left engine case. Screw both of these adjusters in as far as they will go. There will be excessive play in the lever as a result of this. Use the clutch pushrod adjuster in the side case to set clutch free plan. By following this procedure, you will have put the clutch pushrod actuator in the best position to assure maximum clutch plate separation when you pull in the lever."

Clear as mud- though I can be dense at times too.

 

[ReycleBill]

Okay guys, now I'm confused. I've got two of these bikes running and 5 or 6 more in pieces and after reading this I ran out to see and could only find 1 clutch adjustment-- the one on the lever-- what gives? Where is this worm thingie?

 

[5twins]

Minton wrote many hop-up articles for many different bikes and was obviously working on several at the same time. He got confused, lol. There is no lower cable adjuster on the case on a 650 as he states. You have the freeplay adjuster at the handlebar lever and the adjustment screw in the worm gear, that's it. He also screwed up the damper rod description. He said they have 2 large holes at the bottom when in reality, they have 4.

 

[XSLeo]

Recyclebill, the adjuster you are looking for is in the alternator cover, thats the left side cover. You will see a round chrome cover in the side cover. It pops out. Behind it is the worm. See the pics. The black part in the pic is what often cracks and gives mucho troubles.
You will also notice the arm on the worm has two holes. The outer hole makes the lever pull easier, The inner hole make the clutch work better.
I have that worm. The cable in the inner hole, 70 lb clutch springs and I can pull the clutch with two fingers. And the clutch works very well.
Plenty of grease in the worm, and a well oiled cable helps.
Leo

 

[ReycleBill]

Recyclebill, the adjuster you are looking for is in the alternator cover, thats the left side cover. You will see a round chrome cover in the side cover. It pops out. Behind it is the worm. See the pics. The black part in the pic is what often cracks and gives mucho troubles.
You will also notice the arm on the worm has two holes. The outer hole makes the lever pull easier, The inner hole make the clutch work better.
I have that worm. The cable in the inner hole, 70 lb clutch springs and I can pull the clutch with two fingers. And the clutch works very well.
Plenty of grease in the worm, and a well oiled cable helps.
Leo

Gotcha'! What wasn't sinking in was the fact that there's a worm gear which I should have remembered because I took that stuff apart in early Spring but some days my mind simply doesn't grasp the obvious.

I got my clutch adjusted and working fine except that it will slip above 6500 RPM but had I not been testing it I would have never twisted her that far. She's geared tall so I rarely get above 5000 RPM and I never abuse the clutch or transmission like I did when I was younger. I'm thinking she will last 'til Fall.

 

[XSLeo]

Recyclebill, A new set of springs might fix the slipping. MMM sells a few different strengths.
I picked up a set of Kibble White 70lb springs, the same folks that make valve guides and such. They, back in the day made many things.
The ad on Ebay said NOS Kibble White Clutch springs. I think I paid like $20 + S&H.
Even with the heavy springs my plates were burnt bad enough sanding wouldn't get them to grip.
I put in a set of Forodo fiber plates. Sanded all the staining and burrs of the steel plates. Even with the 750 it holds.
On the worm adjuster I don't back off the screw as far as the book calls for. I turn it in to resistance and use the flats on the nut to turn back, one flat. This seems to work well.
Leo
Leo

 

[ReycleBill]

I ordered new springs today, I'll try that before I replace the plates. I haven't noticed any slipping at the speeds I normally drive. I eased her up to almost 100 MPH today and didn't notice any slipping. Not sure of the RPM as I didn't spend much time looking at the tach under those circumstances.

I'm leaving Friday for three days of Blue Ridge mountain roads and sleeping under the stars. Not a mile of 4 lane in the entire trip. I'm pretty comfortable all will hold together.

I'm reminded of my old Superglide that used to sometimes require me to pull the plates on the side of the road and rough them up on the road or concrete curb. I think I managed to get about 10,000 extra miles before I finally bought new parts.