Clutch

[Steven Simpson]

hey everyone,

On the last legs of my build., bike fires up and runs nice all electrical is in good standing. But my clutch is just floppy. I thought the obvious and bought a new cable but that didn’t change anything. The pushrod assembly I believe is all correct . When I got the bike it worked ok. But oil cane out the pushrod once and I just decided to continue the build.

I’m getting ready to ride now though and feel a bit stumped as I’ve checked what I think might be the issue.

Thoughts ?

 

[gggGary]

Is the ball still inside the ramp? it's not shown in the parts diagram because it's supposed to be captive, but often isn't. Depending on your year you have a long rod or two piece rod, there is a ball belongs tween the two short rods also.

 

[xjwmx]

Yep. If you're missing a ball, best I can remember is it's 1/4", available at any decent hardware store. The ball probably missing is the one that sits inside the recess in the left case. The one that's supposed to be trapped by little stakings on the case cover. If you don't know it's there it just falls out and you never see it.

There's also a screw adjuster on the left case cover to contend with, as well as the adjuster at the lever obviously.

 

[gggGary]

Balls are 5/16"

 

[Steven Simpson]

thanks guys! so if I pull the cover off and slide the first rod out, I can see the ball bearing in there. I don't think I am missing any pieces and the screw adjuster is all tight .... Very confused !

Im pretty familiar with tightening the cable and what not, it just FEELS like the cable is too long or something. its not because its the exact length of the one I took off. Im just not experienced enough to know what else it could be. plates look good too

 

[gggGary]

Is your cable arm set like this one?

 

[MaxPete]

Is your cable arm set like this one?

...and note that Gary has no ball down inside the clutch actuator (at least, I can’t see one).

....hmmmm, that didn’t sound quite right did it.

Also, there is another identical ball at the far end of the clutch pushrod - deep inside the clutch basket. It is shown as part number 24 right above the outline of the piston in the schematic above. So - depending on the year of your engine, you will have either:

• One long pushrod with a ball at each end (one inside the actuator and the other deep inside the clutch basket);

OR....

• Two shorter pushrods with the same two balls plus one more ball between the pushrods.

Either way, I’ll bet you dollars-to-doughnuts that you are short at least one ball somewhere.

....hmmmmm...once again, that just doesn’t sound quite right does it?

One more thing to check while you are working on clutch issues - is your cable routed properly? It must run under the tank and then down between the two carbs and not down the outside of the LH carb as some people do. The cable routing issue is unlikely to be the cause of your floppy clutch problem, but getting it wrong will mess up how your clutch works.

....yeah, I've definitely got to work out a new way to say these things...

Pete

 

[Steven Simpson]

there is supposed to be a ball inside the case holding? if so that's definitely the problem

 

[Steven Simpson]

also, its a 1981****

 

[Superjet]

there is supposed to be a ball inside the case holding? if so that's definitely the problem

Yes inside the actuator.

 

[gggGary]

Is the ball still inside the ramp? it's not shown in the parts diagram because it's supposed to be captive, but often isn't. Depending on your year you have a long rod or two piece rod, there is a ball belongs tween the two short rods also.

 

[Steven Simpson]

Thanks gggGary!

 

[gggGary]

5/16"

 

[5twins]

Yes, there should be a ball inside the worm gear. It's not shown on the parts drawing because it's considered part of the assembly. It is crimped in place but over time, the pushrod wears those crimps away and the ball can fall out. You can't see the ball below because I have it packed with grease (as it should be) .....

To determine whether you've lost this ball, remove the adjuster screw. If the ball is gone, you'll be able to look right through the worm.

 

[MaxPete]

If you have not had your clutch apart, then it is extremely unlikely that the ball at the right hand end of the push rod is missing because that one really is waaay in there. More than likely the ball is missing from the clutch actuator (aka the “worm”) mechanism OR from between the long and short pushrods if your bike has two rods. I can never remember whether it’s the early or later bikes like yours that had the two-rod setup.

If your worm/actuator lacks a ball, then buy a 5/16” dia. and just pop it in there, grease it up well, and you should be fine-fine.

If all balls are present and accounted for - then check that you have “clocked” the actuator correctly. This means that you must start threading the plastic powerscrew portion into the metal case at the correct point so that the actuator arm finishes up in about the 8-9:00 o’clock position as shown in Gary’s photo above. If you start winding the plastic portion in at the wrong position, the arm will not finish up in the correct spot.

As I recall, you should start winding it with the arm at about 3:00 o’clock but others will correct me if that is wrong.

If all of the balls are there and the clocking is correct and the cable is routed properly and the sun still shines in Arizona, AND you have had your clutch apart, then you have most likely assembled it incorrectly and you will need to get back into the right hand side engine case and re-do it. There are a lot of washers, spacers, a nifty little radial-needle thrust bearing and all of them must be present and in the correct order or things just don't work properly.

Other than those potential pitfalls, there just isn’t that much more to go wrong with an XS650 clutch.

 

[Steven Simpson]

Got the ball bearing in the actuator and that DEFINITELY tighten it up. that clutch is so hard to pull in. I understand old clutches are tough but this is incorrect. adjusted it all the way down still damn hard. Is this maybe just a grease the cable and worm gear? Or does it sound like a larger problem within the clutch"?


Also, the bike has barely any oil running through it right now . Not sure if that could factor or not?

 

[gggGary]

More often than not, old cables are junk with kinks or rust inside, cable routing REALLY matters, sharp bend = hard pull. Hang up cable, oil till it comes out the other end. If a cable doesn't slide in and out easily when it's on the bench, it'll be a be-itch on the bike. A clutch, pull, hard search reveals LOTs of threads....

 

[5twins]

Yes, your cable needs to be kept well oiled. Even a new cable will need to be oiled before install. They just get a light oil coating when manufactured and even though the inner cable may seem to slide in and out of the sheath easily on the bench, it will bind right up when installed and you put a load on it. I learned this with my first new clutch cable on this bike. I just installed it without oiling it first because, well, it was new. It pulled harder than the old one it was replacing, lol. A proper oiling fixed the issue.

 

[MaxPete]

Agree with all of the above from 5Twins and Gary - particularly about routing the cable correctly. The clutch cable should run under the tank and down BETWEEN the carbs - not down the outside of the left hand carb.

It’s the same concern about correct routing with the throttle cable(s) - they MUST be correct or the bike will be dangerous to ride. For the throttle cables, the key test is to start the bike and let it idle and then swing the handlebars from side to side - all the way.

If the RPM changes - even a little bit - you have a throttle cable routing problem and you should correct it BEFORE riding the bike.

Now, Steven, you said something else that caught my eye....

Also, the bike has barely any oil running through it right now . Not sure if that could factor or not?

Could you explain what you meant by that - in terms of where did you see that “barely any oil was running”...etc.??

Sorry, but I just don’t understand the statement and we should be certain that you don’t have some other problem going on before you start riding and enjoying that old gal.

Pete

 

[Steven Simpson]

Agree with all of the above from 5Twins and Gary - particularly about routing the cable correctly. The clutch cable should run under the tank and down BETWEEN the carbs - not down the outside of the left hand carb.

It’s the same concern about correct routing with the throttle cable(s) - they MUST be correct or the bike will be dangerous to ride. For the throttle cables, the key test is to start the bike and let it idle and then swing the handlebars from side to side - all the way.

If the RPM changes - even a little bit - you have a throttle cable routing problem and you should correct it BEFORE riding the bike.

Now, Steven, you said something else that caught my eye....



Could you explain what you meant by that - in terms of where did you see that “barely any oil was running”...etc.??

Sorry, but I just don’t understand the statement and we should be certain that you don’t have some other problem going on before you start riding and enjoying that old gal.

Pete

I just meant through the build process it has lost engine oil and I had a spill at one point. I haven't added fresh engine oil yet, since I have just been tying up fab work, etc. Now getting ready to ride, I was just wondering if no engine oil would make the clutch stiff when the bike isn't running.