Copper slip grease in the sump

[Peejay]

Hi guys,
Seeking opinions here.
I tore down my XS650 to replace the cam chain tensioner guide after discovering usual bits in the oil.
As can be expected from all the great info there are other things to do but I decided not to split the crankcases but to wash out the bottom end and then started to see reddish metallic stuff in the washout.
Hunting around I found red copper sludge in the gearbox end of the sump and I have flushed out as much as I can find. We called it Copper Slip over here in the UK and used it to hide bad gears noise in cars
My question is - can this stuff cause problems elsewhere? Why would it have been added?
the gears all selected and ran smoothly before the strip down. Have I uncovered a problem?
My guess is that a PO has used it to quieten the gears as this was a trick used years ago but in separate gearboxes from the engine/clutch arrangements.
My fear is that there is something I don't know about going on and I don't want to do unnecessary work but how far should I go?
Has anyone seen this before?
Should I check out the gearbox?
Is anything else ruined by this stuff? The clutch did seem to slip at about 5000 rpm so I had already decided to up rate the springs. Was this unnecessary?
I don't want to rebuild everything and find I should have gone further.
Any opinions/suggestions/ideas guys?
Peejay

 

[azman857]

I say run'er till she blows! Or at least till she smokes and/or rattles, or knocks. Just do routine maint till she needs a real teardown.

 

[XSLeo]

On my 75 it had copper looking sludge in the bottom of the cases. I think it comes from the sump filter, when the sump filter tears, the bits get ground up pretty fine by the oil pump. This finely ground brass collects in low spots in the case. More so in the transmission area because the brass tends to stay mixed with the oil in the engine side because of the turbulence. In the transmission the oil is calmer and gives the brass time to settle out.
I don't think this brass powder will hurt anything. The steel parts inside the engine are much harder than the brass.
On the clutch slippage, It's more noticeable at higher rpms and in the higher gears. Most times you notice it in high gear at high rpms first. As things get worse you stat to feel it in lower gears and lower rpms.
The springs were about 50 lbs. new, after being under compression 35+ years they have gotten weaker. 45, maybe 40 lbs. Stronger springs is a good idea.
Also while apart look at the plates, fiber as well as steel. You will see they have a sharp edge and a slightly rounded edge. This is because they are stamped out. Use sand paper to break the sharp edge. Make it match the rounded edge. This lets the plate slide in the clutch easier. This makes the lever pull easier as well as returning to the closed position. Lets more of the spring pressure get used for holding things closed.
Also I like to use sandpaper to remove any discoloration on the steels. This looks better as well as roughs up the friction surface to improve grip. If you have had the slipping a short time use sandpaper to break any glaze on the fiber surfaces.
If the slippage was long enough you might need new fiber plates. I used the Forodo Plates on my 75.
I also put in much stronger springs, a set of Kibble White 70lb. springs.
650 central has several strengths to choose from.
Leo

 

[Peejay]

You mean run it till it rattles more than 'normal', I guess that's what I will do - hopefully before anything blows.
Doesn't seem to cause any concern to anyone so far. I just wondered if anyone thought it may have been put in to quieten any gear problems.
I don't think the sump gauze was the source because that would have been a yellow color being brass, this was definitely a grease compound, as it washed out the copper settled out and was red-brown.
I like the idea of removing the sharp edges on the plates, I have cleaned up the hub & the basket already so that's the next step.
Thanks guys
PJ

 

[Tomterrific]

Silver aluminum wear particles look yellow in old oil. Always disconcerting to see sparkles in the pan when I change oil outside.

Tom

 

[kevski]

Run the motor up a couple of times with cheapo oil and drain it off, also invest in an aftermarket sump filter from heiden of Holland about 30 quid I have one in mine, the original type filters are crap and bust open almost straight away when a new one is put in, the heiden one is far superior to the oem one.

heiden

original