Here's a poor copy of the early XS parts list for the swingarm. Note the part number changes on the XS2's pivot parts, including the optional shims. May need to pull it back out and double-check protrusion of pivot tube out of the bushings...
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Did I mess up on my swing arm bushing install??
- Thread starter CalsXS2
- Start date
Sonnylynnvick75
XS650 Young Gun
Correct me if I'm wrong guy's.
But according to 5twin's, the tube need's to stick out past the bushing's. Right. So if I just keep tightening the nut with out setting the bushing's in farther, the bushing's will just go in as long as the tube. The tube will never stick out past the bushing's. Right.
Am I thinking of this right.
Right, I pulled a goof on that. you do need to tighten it up to pull the bushings in as far as you can. Once this happens you need to see if your bushings are fully seated. Mine too a bfh to get seated. Then I had to shave the ends to get the pivot arm past the bushings.
Right. First of all, take those shims out of the grease seals. You may not even need them and if you don't, they're making the assembly too tight in the wrong places. I'll try to explain what's happening and what should happen. Once you understand how this thing is supposed to operate, maybe you can fix it. It's "broke" now, lol.
As I explained earlier, the pivot tube should be slightly longer than the assembled swingarm (arm and bushings). The grease seals fit on the ends of the arm pivot area and rest against the pivot tube, not the bushings. There is a spec on how much the tube sticks out but I don't know what it is off hand. It's really not that important except for the fact that the tube must protrude.
Now, for an explanation of the other shims you found in there. Due to manufacturing tolerances and differences, the assemblies sometimes ended up with too much tube protruding. In these cases, those shims were added to decrease the difference in length between the tube and arm/bushing assembly. They fit OVER the tube, not against it, and fill the excess space between the grease seal and the bushing flange. This decreases the side to side play of the mounted arm if it was found to be too much.
In your case now, those shims are bearing against the bushings, which they shouldn't be. Tightening the bolt will press the frame against the bushings, not the pivot tube as should be happening. In fact, it's a tight fit already and doing that even without the bolt tight.
As I said, those shims were only added when needed and that wasn't very often. Chances are, you won't even need them with the new bushings. Out of probably 8 or 10 swingarms I've been into, I only found those shims in one.
As I explained earlier, the pivot tube should be slightly longer than the assembled swingarm (arm and bushings). The grease seals fit on the ends of the arm pivot area and rest against the pivot tube, not the bushings. There is a spec on how much the tube sticks out but I don't know what it is off hand. It's really not that important except for the fact that the tube must protrude.
Now, for an explanation of the other shims you found in there. Due to manufacturing tolerances and differences, the assemblies sometimes ended up with too much tube protruding. In these cases, those shims were added to decrease the difference in length between the tube and arm/bushing assembly. They fit OVER the tube, not against it, and fill the excess space between the grease seal and the bushing flange. This decreases the side to side play of the mounted arm if it was found to be too much.
In your case now, those shims are bearing against the bushings, which they shouldn't be. Tightening the bolt will press the frame against the bushings, not the pivot tube as should be happening. In fact, it's a tight fit already and doing that even without the bolt tight.
As I said, those shims were only added when needed and that wasn't very often. Chances are, you won't even need them with the new bushings. Out of probably 8 or 10 swingarms I've been into, I only found those shims in one.
If you took the tube out and tightened the nut down you might be able to use the bike as a jig to press the bushings in enough that the tube would stick out the ends. I'd try it myself. Beats filing if you don't have to. The other alternative at this point involves going to get all-thread and big washers. Unless you've got a press. If you beat on the bushings with a hammer too much it will flare the ends such that you have to file them to fit the grease caps and hone them to fit the tube.
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CalsXS2
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Ya. That sound's like a good idea. I'm thinking about doing the grease fitting mod. But I really didn't want to take the bushing's out.
Truthfully, I didn't realize the tube went through bushing's. I thought it just went between them, and that was what was keeping my bushing's from going in all the way.
I guess as long as I can get the tube out,,, which I should be able to,,, I could leave the bushing's in and drill the hole for the grease fitting. Then drill it in the tube too. Right??
CalsXS2
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Good point.
But the old nut and bolt has left the building.
I think I have a piece of all thread with this task written all over it.
But the old nut and bolt has left the building.
You'll learn to never throw your old parts away
If you're using the original tube set-up, then you have 3 tubes. The newer bikes did away with that and just use one long tube. On yours, that center tube won't go through the bushings, it's just a spacer. The outer short tubes w/ the grease swirls in them fit in the bushings. But, the same principal applies - your 3 tube "stack" should protrude slightly from the arm and bushing assembly.
CalsXS2
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Ok guy's. Here's what I've got. Remember, this is on my 72.
1. Tc Bros bronze bushing's.
2. New 70-73 swing arm bolt with Nylock nut from mikes.
3. new grease seals from mike's.
4. Thin shim's from original set up.
5. Pivot tube stollen from my Son's 79 bobber project.
When I put it together, it just seemed like the nut would just not reach 50 ft lb's. It just kept turning. Should a nylock be able to get that tight with out stripping.
I think maybe what is going on is I'm just not tightening it up tight enough. I thought the nylon went all the way through the nut. Not just the edge. I thought I was stripping it.
When I get home tonight I will re-torque it and see what happens.
I have to admit that I can't remember exactly where the pivot tube ended up. This is driving me crazy.
I'll post back later. Thanks.
5twins. Please see #5 posted earlier.
CalsXS2
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UPDATE:
So I just went out and had a look. The first thing I did was put more muscle to the nut. I guess I was just scared of it before. It torqued down just fine.
But I went ahead and took it apart. The bushing's did get sucked in more from the re-torque, but just as much as the the length of the pivot tube, like I thought. Flush.
The bushing's looked like they were in as far as they were going to go. But I went ahead and used my threaded rod to try and get a little more. I now have a red ,,err hair of the tube sticking out past the bushing. The only way I could tell is by putting a straight edge across the bushing and holding it up to the light. I did see day light under the straight edge. But man. It is very, very little. It would be hard to measure.
So I put it all back together. Initially, I had too much side to side movement. No biggie. I didn't even have the nut on yet. Swing arm dropped freely.
Then I torqued down the nut.
The swing arm was now way too tight. It was some what hard to move with my hand. I'm not sure the weight of a rider would move it.
So I took the shim's out and tried again. This time, all though the swing arm will not drop on it's own,,, I can move it fairly easy.
Now I guess the question is.... Is just a minute amount of the tube sticking out past the swing arm enough. If so. I'm good. If not. What do I need to shave.
Here's the new grease seal and shim.
I don't think you can tell anything here, but the bushing is in all the way,,, and the tube is sticking out just a whisker.
So I just went out and had a look. The first thing I did was put more muscle to the nut. I guess I was just scared of it before. It torqued down just fine.
But I went ahead and took it apart. The bushing's did get sucked in more from the re-torque, but just as much as the the length of the pivot tube, like I thought. Flush.
The bushing's looked like they were in as far as they were going to go. But I went ahead and used my threaded rod to try and get a little more. I now have a red ,,err hair of the tube sticking out past the bushing. The only way I could tell is by putting a straight edge across the bushing and holding it up to the light. I did see day light under the straight edge. But man. It is very, very little. It would be hard to measure.
So I put it all back together. Initially, I had too much side to side movement. No biggie. I didn't even have the nut on yet. Swing arm dropped freely.
Then I torqued down the nut.
The swing arm was now way too tight. It was some what hard to move with my hand. I'm not sure the weight of a rider would move it.So I took the shim's out and tried again. This time, all though the swing arm will not drop on it's own,,, I can move it fairly easy.
Now I guess the question is.... Is just a minute amount of the tube sticking out past the swing arm enough. If so. I'm good. If not. What do I need to shave.
Here's the new grease seal and shim.
I don't think you can tell anything here, but the bushing is in all the way,,, and the tube is sticking out just a whisker.
Yes, leave that shim out. I told you it probably wouldn't be needed. It sounds pretty close now (with the shim out). If you're worried it's still too tight, sand a little off the end of one of the bushings. I'd use a sanding block with maybe some 400 paper.
Did you hit that swingarm with some fresh paint while it was out? Sometimes that extra paint layer is enough. Powder coating especially can cause a problem. It's best to clean the paint or powder coat off the arm ends before putting the bushings in.
Did you hit that swingarm with some fresh paint while it was out? Sometimes that extra paint layer is enough. Powder coating especially can cause a problem. It's best to clean the paint or powder coat off the arm ends before putting the bushings in.
Your's sounds similar to my setup. After torquing, my swingarm wouldn't fall on its own, but could be moved by hand...
