dual output coil and points problem - fixed

[pa23driver]

i finally got my dual output coil in from mikes today. so i fabbed up a mounting plate and wired up the coil into my ignition system. i wanted to run dual points on a single coil so i disconnected one condensor and hooked the points in parallel. i connected the blue wire (thicker of the two) to the points/condensor and black wire to my engine cutoff switch wire (red/white). i had a great spark going but the bike wouldn't start, just backfire so i decided to check my timing and it was amost to the "T" mark, which i thought was wierd considering it was dead on before i swapped coils. so i threw the batter tender on her and got to tinkering with the timing, next thing i knew i wasn't getting any power what so ever

is there a fuse somewhere that i'm not aware of that could've blown? is it possible i blew my coil already? if it helps i can post pictures.

any help is appreciated

 

[pamcopete]

pa23driver,

Well, it would help if we knew what year / model bike you have and why you decided to use a dual output coil with points and what the part number is for the coil and whether or not you installed a new set of points and condenser.

Without all of the above, my first thought is that a dual output coil produces a positive voltage on one plug and a negative on the other. The timing light only works properly on the negative wire, but there is no easy way to determine which is the negative wire, so all you can do is swap the timing light to the other wire. One of the problems with using the timing light on the positive plug wire is that the timing light will fire on the trailing edge of the spark, which occurs later than the leading edge, so it could show up at TDC.

 

[pa23driver]

my bike info is in my signature. the reason i went with a dual ouput coil with points is because i like having points (for right now) and i was pretty sure my stock coils were shot. Using the dual output coil ( Mikes part #17-6822) would allow me to more cheaply transition into the pamco ignition (which will eventually happen), plus i've read that particular coil gives a little hotter spark compared to the stock units. The points and condensors are all new - less than 1 hour running time on them.

 

[pamcopete]

pa23driver,

Well, I guess I missed your signature. That coil is fine for either points or a PAMCO. I gather that you installed the new points when you still had the stock coils? If so, then I agree that there is no reason that the timing should be off, so I would suggest that you try my theory regarding the polarity of the plug wires, after you find the elusive blown fuse!

 

[pa23driver]

the polarity of the plug wires makes sense, and i'll keep it in mind when i get some spark back in the old girl. the points and condensors wre installed with the stock coils.

as far as i can tell there's only one fuse on the bike, and its the main one on the right side of the battery box - and its not blown.

I'm getting power from the red/white wire that leads to the kill switch. its just weird that one minute i have a good strong spark and the next i got nothing.

this is kind of weird as well. i was checking to see if my kill switch was working correctly and i happened to have the spark plug out laying on the engine head, when i flipped the switch to the off position the plug sparked... any thoughts?

 

[retiredgentleman]

One pair of the points was closed and you had a magnetic field at the ignition coil. When you opened the kill switch, the field collapsed and generated the spark. That would be normal.

I think you have an intermittant fault happening. I suspect either the main fuse, the ignition switch or the kill switch is intermittant. Power is there one moment and gone the next.

You could put a jumper from the battery positive direct to the ignition coils (red/white wire that runs from kill switch to coils.) Then try a kick start. If it starts you have found the faulty path.

 

[pa23driver]

...
You could put a jumper from the battery positive direct to the ignition coils (red/white wire that runs from kill switch to coils.) Then try a kick start. If it starts you have found the faulty path.

makes sense, i'll give it a shot in the morning and let you know how it turns out.

 

[pa23driver]

well, it wasn't an intermittant fault.

the point gaps closed on me to the point where the cam wasn't even opening them. i don't know how it happened, i had those screws pretty tight.

Boy oh boy points sure are fun. now she kicks over in half a kick. idle is high as hell so its on to carb tuning

Thanks for the help everybody, hopefully i won't be needing more any time soon.

 

[Tomterrific]

The reason your points cam closed is from wear on the heel of the rubbing block wearing on the point cam. Put a slight smear of grease on the point cam in front of each point. The heel of the point will take up the grease like a plow and that will lube the rubbing heel and keep wear to a minimum. Be sure to put a drop of oil on the felt also.

Tom Graham

 

[XSLeo]

Points used to come with a little capsule of grease just for lubing the rubbing block.
They used to have it in a small pouch on a rack on the counter right by the checkout at the parts stores.
Can't say I've seen it there lately. Haven't really looked.

 

[pa23driver]

i'll have to look for it the next time i'm in a parts store, seems i'm in there quite a bit lately.

i think the points just shifted as i had the cam lubed up pretty good - not so much to foul the points though. but i went ahead and added a couple drops of oil to the brushes just in case