Early type starter screws

[XS2-72]

I have a XS2 starter that needs to have its long screws replaced. The screws that hold the starter body together, that is.
They are not available to buy so i must make them.
The starter is in a remote location so i cannot measure anything from where i am now.
A straightforward solution would be to weld or braze a suitable screw head to a piece of threaded bar and then grind away the threads in the mid section to provide clearance from the armature.
Does anybody know the length and thread of these? M5 i suppose but i am not 100% sure.

 

[xjwmx]

The parts finder say the bolt (#12) is common to all years. Some kick-only chopper has a starter they might give you or parts for it.

 

[XS2-72]

Thank you xjwmx.
I live in Sweden and xs650´s are thin on the ground here otherwise i would have found a donor.
The XS2 in question is in Indonesia, tucked away in storage waiting for me to come and give some TLC and take her for a ride
She has been sitting there since before covid.
We walk around in rubber flip flops all the time there and i am fed up kickstarting twenty times/day... Need to fix the starter.

I have an -82 3L1 here at home and i will open it up tomorrow to check these bolts.
But if anyone knows the size and gauge right off the bat, i dont have to drain the oil, drop the starter, ruin the seals etc.

 

[freddy3]

Does the bolt look like this:...

 

[kshansen]

I have a XS2 starter that needs to have its long screws replaced. The screws that hold the starter body together, that is.
They are not available to buy so i must make them.
The starter is in a remote location so i cannot measure anything from where i am now.
A straightforward solution would be to weld or braze a suitable screw head to a piece of threaded bar and then grind away the threads in the mid section to provide clearance from the armature.
Does anybody know the length and thread of these? M5 i suppose but i am not 100% sure.

Well, freddy3 seems to have one. He posted while I was digging out the starter from my 1972 parts bike, the screws have left the house.

Any how it appears to be a 5 mm X 0.8 mm flat head screw with overall length of 115mm(or maybe a touch less)

 

[freddy3]

Well, freddy3 seems to have one. He posted while I was digging out the starter from my 1972 parts bike, the screws have left the house.
Any how it appears to be a 5 mm X 0.8 mm flat head screw with overall length of 115mm(or maybe a touch less)

Actually, I don't have it, it's on ebay. And there're a few of 'em there.

 

[XS2-72]

freddy3, yes that is the one!
kshansen, thank you this is what i needed to know.
But i will try to source them on ebay instead. Making them is plan b.

 

[Jim]

Just to expand your search....

I needed them for my '80 (same starter) but couldn't find them anywhere. Finally discovered (don't ask me how) that a SAE 10/32 screw fits just fine. It's close enough to the M5 X 0.8 that it's interchangeable. So if you can run across 10/32 by 4-1/2 to 4-9/16" screws... they'll work.

 

[freddy3]

Just to expand your search....

I needed them for my '80 (same starter) but couldn't find them anywhere. Finally discovered (don't ask me how) that a SAE 10/32 screw fits just fine. It's close enough to the M5 X 0.8 that it's interchangeable. So if you can run across 10/32 by 4-1/2 to 4-9/16" screws... they'll work.

Adding to this....before I found them on ebay, I was thinking you could probably find something similar at hardware stores that stock a good selection of bolts and screws. Also, there're alotta sources for good quality bolts online and these starter bolts don't appear to be anything special (e.g., tempered, high SAE grades, etc.).

 

[Jim]

...and these starter bolts don't appear to be anything special (e.g., tempered, high SAE grades, etc.).

Correct. They pretty much just hold the end caps in place while it sits on the bench. Once installed, the 4 M8 bolts that mount it will hold it together.
Any hardware grade... grade5... will work just fine.

 

[Jim]

Just found the post...
I used studs that were threaded 10/32 on both ends.... with a nut holding it all together. Didn't hunt for screws 'cause the studs were on hand.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/jims-1980-sg-miss-september.50545/post-551327

 

[XS2-72]

freddy3 and Jim, thank you!
Swedish hardware stores don't carry m5 bolts over 90mm and similar non-metric stuff is even more exotic.
I'll make studs out of stainless M5 stock, use conical washers and a thin nut, just like in Jim's picture. Will grind away the threads in the center section.
Thank you for all suggestions,
Stefan

 

[kshansen]

Are you sure the threads in the center section will cause a problem?

I'm wondering if the reason there are no threads in the center and it is smaller diameter because the original screws(bolts) were threaded by rolling the threads which causes the threads to raise above the unthreaded area.

https://www.bhamfast.com/rolled-thread-vs-cut-thread-bolts/

 

[XS2-72]

Are you sure the threads in the center section will cause a problem?

I'm wondering if the reason there are no threads in the center and it is smaller diameter because the original screws(bolts) were threaded by rolling the threads which causes the threads to raise above the unthreaded area.

https://www.bhamfast.com/rolled-thread-vs-cut-thread-bolts/

Yes, the threads on the studs shown by Jim look rolled.
I have had the starter apart before and as far as i remember it was a bit tight.
But since i have a nice tool grinder with rotary collets etc i may as well give it some exercise
Taking away half of the thread depth would leave more than 4mm shaft diameter and it will not weaken the stud.

Hmm, i do have a piece of 5mm round stock and may instead cut a thread on this. May or may not grind it.

To be continued...

 

[arcticXS]

A smaller shank than thread diameter will not weaken a bolt or stud, as long as the cross section area is the same as through the threaded part. Many specialized fasteners are like that, like conrod cap bolts, cylinder head bolts etc.

 

[XS2-72]

A smaller shank than thread diameter will not weaken a bolt or stud, as long as the cross section area is the same as through the threaded part. Many specialized fasteners are like that, like conrod cap bolts, cylinder head bolts etc.

Correct. And these studs do not need to be superstrong anyway.
The starter is held in place by the 4pc 8mm mounting bolts and the mid section that holds the field armature is held to each aluminum housing with a pin. Once installed, it can not twist.

I bought this XS2 in -98 while living on Bali. It had been sitting in storage since the 80´s and was in a crap state but had matching numbers and intact paperwork. There was no seat so once i got it running i nicked a pillow from the hotel and tied it down with duct tape. Was ok until i had a seat made a few months later.
The engine had std pistons, 0,25 rings and the bores were worn waaay beyond limits.
The conrod small ends were worn out but the whole bottom end was well inside spec.
I relined the cylinders, installed 20mm bushings in the small ends and the pistons and fit 20mm gudgeon pins instead of the wiggly 22mm originals. Got a set of std rings sent in the mail.
There were some other upgrades done through the years, such as new clutch, new timing chain/guard, new valves, big oil pump, oil cooler, Boyer ignition etc but this basic gudgeon pin mod has been working ever since, no problem.
This is what you do when there are absolutely no spare parts available anywhere in the country.

 

[KateSpears]

Recently, I also had a frustrating experience with my gaming stand. I had it mounted on the wall using M6 bolts, but they failed to hold it. They were too small and couldn't handle the weight of the stand. After some research, I discovered that M8 bolts or multi-headed rivets would be much more secure. I decided to give the rivets from https://www.scrooz.com.au/fasteners/rivets/ a try, and I'm glad I did. I simply drilled holes in the wall and in the stand and then inserted the rivets. They made it look like the stand was floating on the wall.