Engine heating up and shutting down

[suntosh]

I am not stranded but I am done with morons who are too lethargic to fix a problem such as this so I am in my garage trying to fix it myself.

What was the cause of your problem tho ? Also any videos on removing the right side plate.

 

[Kevin Werner]

At 3000 rpm your charging needs to be somewhere between 14 to 14.5v. Some say the first thing you address when you have poor running issues is the charging system. Coils step up voltage at a fixxed ratio. 300:1, 600:1, 1000:1, whatever. If your coil input is 20% low, 14 charging vs 11.5 battery, your coil output is that same 20% low. There are easy checks of brushes, slip rings and regulator you need to make. Repairs/parts are relatively cheap and you will know your bike better in the end. Cheers.

 

[suntosh]

That's exactly what I am trying to do. The first check has failed at 3000 RPM it will not go to 14.5. I am looking at what should I do next. My coil input is not low because I charged the battery fully now I don't know if the issue is between the ignition and the coil. But how do I test that. At this point should I remove the tank. I mean the battery should not discharge at crazy speeds just by turning the ignition on so I guess I dont need to start the engine to get to the problem.

 

[Kevin Werner]

That's exactly what I am trying to do. The first check has failed at 3000 RPM it will not go to 14.5. I am looking at what should I do next. My coil input is not low because I charged the battery fully now I don't know if the issue is between the ignition and the coil. But how do I test that. At this point should I remove the tank. I mean the battery should not discharge at crazy speeds just by turning the ignition on so I guess I dont need to start the engine to get to the problem.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/expanded-charging-system-guide-in-progress.10561/
Credit @gggGary for starting this charging system thread. He does a good step by step. Lots of others add info, tips etc. On my '77, the battery feeds the key switch and the key switch feed the rest of the bike IIRC. The harness to and from go under the tank. A dirty key switch contact will suck 1 volt or more out of your system.
But, back to the battery. Does it pass basic load tests outlined in the "charging system" thread listed above.

 

[Kevin Werner]

I may be well wide of the mark here. Bike electrics, to me, are essentially witchcraft.

Try disconnecting your head & tail lights. Pull the round, center cover off your left hand engine casing. Now remove the bushings from the rotor plate. That disconnects & isolates your charging system & you won't be getting any draw from the lights.

I did the same thing, after advice here, when my rotor shat itself miles from help & that was enough to let me ride the rest of the way on a charged battery. The only thing drawing any current at that point is the ignition circuit.

It could be that you're in a similar rotor situation. The bike rides great until the battery drops below 11.5v, then dies. Let it sit for an hour or so & it absorbs just enough to get back to 12 & start the bike again.
I'm probably way off, but it sounds very similar to what happened to me.

On a similar note, pulling the fuse labeled "Lights" removes the lights from the system for a quick easy check.

 

[jpdevol]

I did the battery test. At 2500 RPM it barely crosses 13 volts. I fully charged the battery to 12.7 before testing. and the battery holds the charge overnight so the battery is good.

The battery loses charge to 12.2 as soon as I on the ignition and idle the bike but as soon as turn the bike off/off ignition , the battery's charge actually comes back between 12.6 - 12.7 . Is the coil faulty ? Any clues what to do next

I read the guide but I think the battery on its own is capable of holding charge and lighting a bulb for 20 minutes. If the battery is put through the charging system, it drains the battery superfast.

FYI- The regulator/rectifier were removed but I dont think there is a problem with them. I did a diode test on it. My MM is Fluke.

When testing electrical systems, I like to work in an orderly progression; The guide I linked earlier does that. However, given the fact your charging system failed the first test and the History of the XS, I'd suggest skipping right to the rotor testing.

With the key on - but bike not running, you should be able to detect magnetism at the rotor nut on the left end of the crank. If you can detect no magnetic difference key on or off, then it's time to remove the stator housing (2 screws under left cover at 3 & 9 O'clock on the housing). With the rotor now exposed, set multimeter to Ohms and measure between each copper slip ring - we're looking for a value of moe than 5 ohms - I suspect yours will measure ~ 1 Ohm (and that is your charging problem and also why your battery drains quickly). Prepare the bad rotor for shipment to @Jim

 

[suntosh]

When testing electrical systems, I like to work in an orderly progression; The guide I linked earlier does that. However, given the fact your charging system failed the first test and the History of the XS, I'd suggest skipping right to the rotor testing.

With the key on - but bike not running, you should be able to detect magnetism at the rotor nut on the left end of the crank. If you can detect no magnetic difference key on or off, then it's time to remove the stator housing (2 screws under left cover at 3 & 9 O'clock on the housing). With the rotor now exposed, set multimeter to Ohms and measure between each copper slip ring - we're looking for a value of moe than 5 ohms - I suspect yours will measure ~ 1 Ohm (and that is your charging problem and also why your battery drains quickly). Prepare the bad rotor for shipment to @Jim

The slap test works like a charm. I did it multiple times. Pulls/Sticks and releases. What next or then ?.

Could it be the ignition or bad wiring around the turn lights are the culprit.

 

[Jan_P]

Not read through
But lets sum it up

What year model ? help if it is TCI or points ? Stock ignition ? Or replaced ?
What is currently installed in terms of Regulator Rectifier
How much is it charging across the battery at say 3000 rpm
How old is the battery is it fully charged
How many fuses and does any of them blow
Does it splutter or misfire shutting down running on one cylinder or does it just plainly shut down

Kill switch ?? TCI Overheating ? fuses not tight ?

 

[jpdevol]

The slap test works like a charm. I did it multiple times. Pulls/Sticks and releases. What next or then ?.

Could it be the ignition or bad wiring around the turn lights are the culprit.

Good, then the rotor should be good. It could be a lot of things, so returning to an orderly progression and the (Gary's) Guide (item #3 therin). Lets do the Regulator bypass test - the grounding of the green brush wire with temporary jumper - should return voltage at battery @ 2500rpm to 14.5VDC

 

[suntosh]

What year model ? help if it is TCI or points ? Stock ignition ? Or replaced ?
1981 ( VIN ends with 79 ). I thinks Stock as much as I know.

What is currently installed in terms of Regulator Rectifier
None. A moron mechanic removed the regulator , rectifier saying its useless today.

How much is it charging across the battery at say 3000 rpm
13.5

How old is the battery is it fully charged
Battery is 3 months old. Yes tested this morning fully charged. It held the charge over night on my charging desk.

How many fuses and does any of them blow
It blew 1 fuse when my mechanic wired my turn signals. Its since then I have been having problems , no problems before that.

Does it splutter or misfire shutting down running on one cylinder or does it just plainly shut down
It shuts down after it heats up as much as I can remember.. over heats and shuts down. Give it 15 minutes and starts right back.

 

[suntosh]

Good, then the rotor should be good. It could be a lot of things, so returning to an orderly progression and the (Gary's) Guide (item #3 therin). Lets do the Regulator bypass test - the grounding of the green brush wire with temporary jumper - should return voltage at battery @ 2500rpm to 14.5VDC

Like I dont have spare jumper wires but I have ordered them off Amazon - should be in tomorrow. - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0971DBWDW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The regulator has been removed so it's already being passed. So maybe tomorrow. Like I need to know in detail how to do this test. for eg.

1. one alligator clip clips on the green wire and the other end is grounded like maybe clipping on a metal on the bike and then how do you measure using the multimeter. Black on what and red on what.

 

[robtattoo]

How many fuses and does any of them blow
It blew 1 fuse when my mechanic wired my turn signals. Its since then I have been having problems , no problems before that.

Silly question then: have you tried disconnecting the turn signals?
Could be that one of them is wired to a permanent live/switched ground & shorting everything out? *shrugs in electrical ignorance

Also, if you have no reg/rec whatsoever, well..... that's an issue that needs resolving, pronto. If your mechanic says you don't need one, frankly, he's a fucking idiot & deserves every slap he ever gets. I'm beginning to think that regardless, if he screwed up wiring a set of blinkers.

 

[Jan_P]

OK Thank you for the cooperation

The 13.5 V at 3000 rpm is a no Charging situation I believe ---- a new battery will hold that

So the regulator and rectifier is the next thing to localize it can be a combo with both included or 2 separate.

Please see if you can find it and perhaps upload a picture Check the connector so it is clean and are connecting properly and get back We need more at 3 -4 000 rpm across the battery it needs to regulate down 14: 14.5 about
Otherwise there can be excess Voltage on the TCi and it can shut down or fry That is not good.

 

[robtattoo]

FYI on a 1981, the reg/rec is a finned aluminum unit that sits just above the swinging arm spindle, ahead of the rear wheel.

 

[suntosh]

Silly question then: have you tried disconnecting the turn signals?
Could be that one of them is wired to a permanent live/switched ground & shorting everything out? *shrugs in electrical ignorance

Also, if you have no reg/rec whatsoever, well..... that's an issue that needs resolving, pronto. If your mechanic says you don't need one, frankly, he's a fucking idiot & deserves every slap he ever gets. I'm beginning to think that regardless, if he screwed up wiring a set of blinkers.

FYI on a 1981, the reg/rec is a finned aluminum unit that suits just above the swinging arm spindle, ahead of the rear wheel.

Its on my table and I did some diode testing with it. Its good. Not sure why my mechanic removed it

 

[suntosh]

OK Thank you for the cooperation

The 13.5 V at 3000 rpm is a no Charging situation I believe ---- a new battery will hold that

So the regulator and rectifier is the next thing to localize it can be a combo with both included or 2 separate.

Please see if you can find it and perhaps upload a picture Check the connector so it is clean and are connecting properly and get back We need more at 3 -4 000 rpm across the battery it needs to regulate down 14: 14.5 about
Otherwise there can be excess Voltage on the TCi and it can shut down or fry That is not good.

The regulator rectifier is sitting on my table and I can mount it back with some help.

 

[suntosh]

Silly question then: have you tried disconnecting the turn signals?
Could be that one of them is wired to a permanent live/switched ground & shorting everything out? *shrugs in electrical ignorance

Also, if you have no reg/rec whatsoever, well..... that's an issue that needs resolving, pronto. If your mechanic says you don't need one, frankly, he's a fucking idiot & deserves every slap he ever gets. I'm beginning to think that regardless, if he screwed up wiring a set of blinkers.

One mechanic screwed up wiring the blinkers . The second mehanic removed the regulatro rectifier. I've had enough I am going the rabbit hole myself I've decided.

 

[Jan_P]

Its on my table and I did some diode testing with it. Its good. Not sure why my mechanic removed it

The diodes are for the rectifier .I believe it is the regulator part that is most prone to frying I have done it .
Please install it and try to measure Voltage across battery at 3 -4 k rpm
There is a connector hanging free on the bike that should fit. But I now see that the unit has no connector so please look at the color on the bike side see if they match If not come back

 

[suntosh]

The diodes are for the rectifier .I believe it is the regulator part that is most prone to frying I have done it .
Please install it and try to measure Voltage across battery at 3 -4 k rpm
There is a connector hanging free on the bike that should fit. But I now see that the unit has no connector so please look at the color on the bike side see if they match If not come back

I am attaching 3 images on the kicker side of the bike and I know there is a place holder for the rectifier. But do you see anything wrong with wiring.

Also point me to some connectors on amazon that will suit the job.

 

[Jim]

Like I dont have spare jumper wires but I have ordered them off Amazon - should be in tomorrow. - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0971DBWDW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The regulator has been removed so it's already being passed. So maybe tomorrow. Like I need to know in detail how to do this test. for eg.

1. one alligator clip clips on the green wire and the other end is grounded like maybe clipping on a metal on the bike and then how do you measure using the multimeter. Black on what and red on what.

You're overthinking it...

Take a pair of needle nose pliers... touch one tip to the green wire screw and the other to the screw on the stator. Brush is now grounded... charging should jump a lot. Like 15v at 3000rpm. You don't need the regulator installed to do this.... start the bike, short the wire, rev it and see what ya got?

EDIT: combined reg/rec needs to be connected.