First XS650 Build, What to Look For

[fredintoon]

Hi Slowmaintenence,
encourage the pistons to move by making a faux head from 3/4" plywood.
Make two poorboy screwjacks from threaded rod, lengths of tube, hex nuts and plywood disks to protect the piston tops just in case the pistons are salvageable.
Jack the pistons down against the faux head while keeping the piston to bore area dosed up with penetrating oil.
Give the nuts a good reef every morning until things start to move.
Cam sprocket looks OK. Check the crankshaft sprocket too once the engine is apart.
Didja do continuity tests on the rotor and stator? Don't junk them unless they are hooped.
Those mesas are factory filled holes that had to be made from the outside to complete the crankcase oil passages.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Not sure I'm understanding the setup, do you by any chance have a picture of what this device looks like?

As for rotor and stator, I'm going w/ a PMA and Pamco for the rebuild so I didn't check these components as the plan was to remove and replace. Suppose I could look up this continuity test procedure to check but the bike had no battery or wiring harness really so I didn't do much electrical testing.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi SlowMaintenence,
sorry, no photo.
Length of threaded rod with a nut loctited on one end, another nut just a few turns down from it and then a plain washer.
Or use a long machine screw instead of the threaded rod & nut.
Shove it down a length of pipe.
Threading the lower nut to move the pipe away from the upper nut increases the length of the assembly to make an el-cheapo jack.
Putting the jack between the faux cylinder head and the rusted piston and turning the nut to increase the jack's length creates a force between the piston crown and the underside of the faux head and as the head can't move up unless the plywood breaks the piston is forced to move down.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Hey guys, sorry in advance to everyone's eyes for having to look at this MS paint diagram, but am I understanding your contraption properly per this representation? Don't worry, I know this isn't going to make the stickies lol

Also, turned a few more bolts in the mean time. This oil filter actually looks pretty damn clean, I guess there are upsides in this engine yet. Maybe the bottom end won't be a disaster after all!

Another angle

And one of the side with a few more parts removed. Still cant get that damn starter cover off! Starter is removed tho if anybody wants it.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Hey guys, so I finally got the pusher tool together. Took many trips to the hardware store buying incorrect sizes of various components but she's all together now. Will do another full turn per day until it breaks free, keeping PB blaster on it the whole time.

As you can see from the last pic, it appears that the pistons are at slightly different levels. Not sure why that would be, but I'm hoping it's not some type of major damage.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Thanks solo. Def gonna take a little bit of time. I went downstairs tonight and alternated 1/4 turns between the two pistons. Probably got a good 3-4 full turns worth of distance from each side and I can see the pistons sinking down into the head now! Felt amazing to actually feel some progress, can't tell much by this pic but if you compare to those above you can see how much more of the exposed thread is visible. I'll leave it alone for tonight as it started getting tougher to turn. More room for the PB blaster to pool up in now, another 24 hours and I should be able to turn them out fully.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Alright guys I'm back again. Many days and many turns later I had a big problem. The super thick support brace at the top of my homemade piston pusher snapped! I had bought a super thick one to make sure that this didn't happen but lo and behold, those pistons were just too much for my rudimentary tools.

Not to be discouraged, I decided that I was not going to deal with the hassle of redrilling a new one. I had soaked the pistons in pb blaster and white vinegar for about a week, they had to be looser than when they started. So I grabbed a hammer and a 2x4 and knocked it on the pistons. I couldn't tell if it was moving until I pulled up on the cylinder block and saw how high it lifted. Was I finally going to get inside these cylinders after all?

More tapping later I had them high enough to use the broken top brace as spacers. The excitement was killing me at this point but I stopped to snap a few pics of what it was looking like so you guys could see the progress in the event that I didn't get them out. But several taps later they were poking out the bottom.

Quick side note here, when I finally got them most of the way out, the pistons had angled a bit from the somewhat random downward force of the 2x4. It left them at an angle to where I had to put the 2x4 against the side of the piston and knock the bottom end sideways to even it out and slide it out the bottom. Do you think that would have caused any concerning damage?

Anyways, I got the cylinder block off and here's what was hiding underneath that peanut buttery seized piston rust mixture I initially found.

I'm not engine expert, and this is only the second engine I've ever been inside. The first being my Ironhead project which had cylinder that were gouged horribly from the piston pin clip slipping out while the motor was running. That level of horror was not found here, but in my novice status I'll reserve any snap judgements on what I've found and let you gurus weigh in first. I have more pics if you need better shots of the cylinders or pistons, looking for advice on where to go from here. One user on here had recommend the CruizinImage 706cc piston kit on fleabay, which is actually priced pretty reasonably. Let me know if anyone has tried them and how it went for you. Thanks!

Pistons front

Pistons rear

Piston side

Cylinders from above

One side

The other side. (There's a knot in the wood it's sitting on that makes it look messed up on the side but it's actually smooth)

I do have a local shop who I'll likely bring the cylinders and pistons to to have them evaluated. They have a machine shop they've worked with for many years who does all their boring. They also have a welding shop who does all their frames. Lucky find.

At this point it's on to the bottom end. Speaking of which, what's the best way to take this thing apart? Upside down? Right side up? Such a confusing block, any tips welcome.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Nick,
congratulations, you have invented the woodsplitter.
There's a reason I said to use plywood, eh?
Or you could have even cut that wooden slab so it's grain ran the other way.
Before you buy new pistons, clean up the existing pistons and check the piston to bore clearances.
You may just get away with a bore hone and new rings.

 

[5twins]

Yes, have your shop inspect the cylinders and pistons, but you are probably going to have to bore it. There is most likely a ring of rust in each bore where the rings were stuck. When you clean that away you will most likely find pitting into the bore. Honing isn't going to get that out.

Cruzinimage has .5mm (2nd oversize) and 1mm (4th oversize) pistons too. One of them may be enough and they cost $40 less than the 706cc kit. The shop will be able to tell you what you need.

To get into the bottom end, the motor must be flipped upside down. It's designed to be taken apart by lifting the bottom case half off the top one, all the gears and crank remaining in the top half.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Seems strange that they'd make an engine with 8 rods sticking up and design it such that the side with the exposed rods has to point down for removal. You can't rest it on the rods can you?

 

[5twins]

I don't think so. I think some stick it into a plastic milk crate. I made a "flip stand". As you've probably noticed, these motors are a bit difficult to man-handle around. There's nothing really to grab onto. My flip stand rolls the motor over upside down in three easy steps .....

 

[SlowMaintenance]

That's badass! Awesome idea for making it easier to maneuver. I need to start welding lol.

On that topic, I'm going to have the hardtail professionally welded on but for other smaller things like 3 point flip engine stands, mounting brackets, sissy bars etc...could a 120v welder like this be used? Anyone in here who never welded before but just went out and bought one cause you knew you'd eventually need to weld some stuff onto the bike? I feel like it's a necessary skill if you want to build your own bike and not pay a fortune for labor. I spent $80 to have a rear motor mount boss aluminum TIG welded back onto my Ironhead cases and left from the shop feeling like things were going to get insanely expensive if I didn't start welding my own pieces. (minus the frame, I don't want that responsibility)

http://low.es/1Swpu1U
Here's one from lincoln electric who per my research is a pretty reputable brand within the welding industry

 

[5twins]

You don't even need to get that fancy. All I have is a little 110v 100 amp "buzz box" stick welder that I bought used for like $70 years ago .....

If you do get something, I would recommend one of your first projects be a little all metal welding table. It makes welding little things, which is mostly what you'll be doing, so much easier. You attach your ground cable right to the table leg then just clamp the part you're welding right to the table .....

These are centerstands I was repairing and bracing .....

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Super inspiring to see that it's really that simple. I'm a little scared to go used since I don't know how to inspect the machine for proper working condition, but I will probably find something cheaper than the $300 one i linked and go with that instead.

Could this be an indoor activity btw? I've got a very small yard and very snobby neighbors who frequently complain when I work on my bike out front. I have to imagine me out there in a welding mask wouldn't win me any popularity contests haha.

 

[SkavenDC]

Wow. This is turning into an excellent how-to. Help. I bought a basket case now what do I do? You're making good progress on the bike SM. Keep the faith and try to enjoy this learning experience.

5twins. It's inspiring to see someone of your reputation on here "only" using a 110v stick welder. I too was interested in getting a small welder to add to my list of skills. I too would be in the same camp as SM and leave the frame to the professionals, but is there anything you wouldn't do with it? Sounds good for small tasks. Just curious from experience what its limits are. (Love the flip-stand btw)

 

[5twins]

Yes, you could weld inside, as long as you weren't surrounded by flammable materials and had a fire extinguisher near by. My work shed is pretty full of bikes and chemicals so I do my welding outside. I guess you could call me a fair weather welder, lol. What might raise more stink with the neighbors is all the 4 1/2" grinder work involved. All that cutting and grinding makes quite a racket. I've taken to wearing ear muffs. I just use the cheepo $1.99 ones from HF but they do a fine job muffling most of the noise. The cutting/grinding you could do inside. It produces sparks but they're what's classified as "cold sparks", with not nearly as much fire starting potential as welding sparks. Then just take the stuff outside to weld it.

 

[5twins]

Yes, I probably wouldn't do a major frame mod like adding a hardtail with the little buzz box. I have done lots of little frame repairs like fixing steering stops or little mods like adding brackets/tabs for stuff. I would like to get a mig or tig for major stuff like critical frame welds, along with the ability to do thin material like exhausts. A stick welder isn't very good for the thin stuff.

As with anything, you get better with practice. I'm still no ace welder, but I think I do OK. If a weld comes out like crap or with big gaps, you just grind it out and/or weld over it. As the old saying goes "My welding skills have greatly improved my grinding skills". I'm pretty good with the grinder, lol.

 

[Higgy]

I have a Lincoln 135P with gas. It's a great little welder for anything up to 1/4". I don't like the mess to clean up from flux core. The gas is great. I just bought an Eastwood 200 AC/DC TIG - still in the box. I didn't get a chance before I broke my wrist.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Hey guys, more updates. Got the rotor puller tool from zzblazezz. Here's a little walkthrough of how it works.

Strip the left side cover and stator cover. Also remove the 17mm nut from the alternator shaft. You should be left with this...

Next attach the larger threaded section of the rotor puller tool onto that shaft, threads on righty tighty. It will look like this. This part goes on HAND TIGHT.

Next, thread the smaller inner section of the tool into the larger outer section, like this...

Now, get a big wrench (can't remember what size I used...22mm maybe?) to hold that larger outer section of the tool by the flat spot. Keeping that outer section firmly in place, use a smaller wrench to twist the smaller inner rod to the right. You may need to smack the smaller wrench with a BFH (I did) to get it to pop off. Once it does, you'll see that you've pulled the outer shaft (and alternator) off of the smaller shaft which you can see still remaining in final picture below. If you plan to install a PMA, you can discard this alternator as you won't need it anymore.

All done!

PS: Since l'll be using a PMA, I won't be needing this alternator. If you need it, hit me up.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Split this up into a separate post in case people wanted to link to the above post for questions they get regarding pulling that rotor. Anyways, here goes.

Started off by pulling the kicker gear shaft, looks to be in good order. Thanks Nightflyer for making another video about how this piece goes back in, can only imagine how much of a PITA it would be to determine without a good visual guide. Here's what she looks like, appears to be in good condition

Here's a shot of my fancy engine stand/bike lift. If you tip the engine over on it's side, it's easier to get the clutch off. I had to use an impact on it because someone at yamaha decided that phillips head bolts are appropriate for a clutch pressure plate. Maybe mine was just especially difficult, your mileage may vary.

Apply impact driver here, smash until bolt comes out lol. Repeat 5 more times, going in a criss cross pattern opposite the bolt you just removed. For example, if you removed 12 o clock bolt first, remove 6 o clock bolt second. Then go to 10 and 4 and so on.

Here's the pressure plate which is now removed

Clutch pack here, this is what you'll see once you remove the 6 screws and pressure plate.

Close up shot of the disks in the clutch basket. You'll need to buy a micrometer to determine whether or not these are in spec. Guess who doesn't own one of those yet?

I also went ahead and cracked open all of the engine case bolts. That may have been premature, as I'm now left with the clutch basket still to remove. It comes off via a large nut (didn't check size yet) in the center that you can see in the picture above. Various methods of holding the clutch basket while you loosen the bolt, the easiest being the clutch holder tool, but seeing as I don't have the clutch holding tool I'll likely try my hand at a rachet strap method I saw someone use.

More pics and progress to come. Enjoy!