frame building - welding help needed

[trance]

Hi, I'm working on rewelding my frame. I have a lincoln 180 amp AC buzzbox stick welder.

I know this isn't the best machine to weld a frame, but it's all I have right now.

I actually used to be a very good welder, with TIG and MIG, but have never been more than a passable stick welder.

Still, my current welds are horrid. I had to quit yesterday because they were so bad. Will have to grind several out and reweld.

Here's my problem: I had to turn the machine down to 60 amps to avoid burning through the tube. I'm running 6013 rod at 3/32". With this set up, I was getting lots of what I think are called "inclusions" in the weld - a gap in the weld bead that is full of slag. I cannot successfully weld over this gap, it just has a new gap in the same spot. I assume because the slag cannot escape through the new weld puddle w/o creating a new gap.

I think my problems are:

1) too low of an amperage for this rod. I was having better luck at 70 amps. Should I switch to 1/16" rod at 60 amps?

2) I'm probably not very steady with my weave pattern. Should I be weaving much at all? I had slightly better luck drawing little circles instead of a smily-face weave pattern. Instead should I be mostly dragging the rod straight w/very little weave?

Going to the store today for 1/16" rod and lots of grinding discs!

 

[dahondaboy]

find a tool rental place and rent a mig its the best option. as far as your pattern goes,
as long as you get good penetration and puddle flow and not burning holes u should be okay. and yes you should minimize your side to side action replacing it with a motion that pushes back into the weld and drawing out know what i mean? ac welders are very touchy and unforgiving at low amperage. you might have to crank it up and just move faster.

 

[DLD1]

There's nothing wrong with stick welding a frame as long it's done well. Because the frame is fairly thin wall tube, you are right, go to smaller rod so you can run lower amperage. I welded the first couple of race car frames I made in the 80s with a stick welder with no problems in the harsh conditions of racing. Get the smaller rod, and practice a little on scrap to get your settings right. Once you do, it should go well. My preference is TIG, but I would confidently stick weld almost anything if necessary. good luck.

DLD1

 

[trance]

Thanks guys.

Wish I could rent a mig, but my local rental places don't even rent a stick. Discovered today that the local welding supply shop does not have any 1/16" rod either. So, guess I"ll either make it work with the 3/32" or order some 1/16" rod.

Welcome to small town america!

thanks for the welding advice. I'll try the in & out pattern and see if she likes that any better

 

[DLD1]

I didn't realize Ithaca, NY was a small town. I had always piuctured it as a large city, so I looked it up. Only 30,000 people, that is pretty small. I live in waht we call a small town here in North Central CA, it's 80,000, and I have similar issues getting stuff. I have to travel at least 30 miles for many things.

Good luck,

DLD1

 

[Belle]

Do you have some sort of electricity conditioner/stabilizer

 

[bradshaw106]

Try being in a town of 7000....

 

[DLD1]

Try being in a town of 7000....

Although I'm sure it has drawbacks, I think I would like a small town of 7000. There's just too damn many people here!

 

[XSLeo]

Being in Ithaca You might try TSC, They sell welding supplies. Is there a Harbor Freight near you?
I don't think the town I live in is that big. We don't even have a post office, A part time chuch, but no stores of any kind.
Leo

 

[landerson]

Trance,

I try to avoid using 6013-Fast Freeze rods if possible. Unfortuantly, that's a rod series most available at over the counter hardware stores, etc. I believe the 6013 can be used either reverse(+) or straight(-) polarity which is why its more universal. The 60's series is considered a "fast-freeze" rod (6010-6011-6013) that works well in pipe fitting for root passes when deeper penetration is needed but can be tricky when welding on thinner tube. Without cutting torches available, I've used these rods for cutting steel somethimes. When I use a 60 series, I prefer 6010 or 6011. They're good for out of position welding and much cleaner. I also like a "whip-pause" motion vs. cresents or dragging (due to fast freeze characteristics). Keeping the base material as clean as possible without wind will avoid gas drift and keep your puddle cleaner. If you can rent a rig with MIG or TIG, I'd try that first. Good luck on your build.

 

[dahondaboy]

@ DLD1 , yes there is nothing wrong with buzzbox welds as long as you are very practiced with it. however A/C stick is bar none the hardest to weld with especially for inexperienced. you will stick more rods and burn more holes than any other type of welding. tell me i am wrong..... modern a/c welders have a amperage drop off where after striking an arc the amps drop for a millisecond so you dont stick the rod but still pretty unforgiving.
if you have a d/c box they are waaaay easier to get good consistency. hell, back in the day i had a model a ford powered a/c generator/welder that started with a hand crank. i learned about burning holes and gaps real fast if i were you i would put an ad in your local paper to rent a mig from someone, spend a half hour on some scrap and you will feel like a pro compared to that buzz box. i have been backyard welding for 20 years and professionally for 10. i have welded fence tubes that are .065 wall to 1/4 inch plate with a stick a/c welder, it can be done but takes lots of practice. if i burn a hole in a fence post i grab a new one. you cant just do that with a hard tail. another option you probably dont want to hear is to talk to an auto shop and see if they will do it after hours for some cash or beer

 

[trance]

We are 30,000 people with 29,999 of them being college students. (LOL). Used to live in Houston and Seattle. You could get anything in the big city.

dahondaboy, thanks for your report, makes me feel like less of a loser. yeah, I'm having a heck of a time not burning through.

Had a good grinding session this weekend though, and the joints are starting to look better. Laying in plenty of metal so I can grind it out nicely. This frame certainly won't be perfect but will look nice and be strong when I'm done.

I think for the next one I'll just invest in a nice TIG and be done w/it. ...

 

[DLD1]

@ DLD1 , yes there is nothing wrong with buzzbox welds as long as you are very practiced with it. however A/C stick is bar none the hardest to weld with especially for inexperienced. you will stick more rods and burn more holes than any other type of welding. tell me i am wrong..... modern a/c welders have a amperage drop off where after striking an arc the amps drop for a millisecond so you dont stick the rod but still pretty unforgiving.
if you have a d/c box they are waaaay easier to get good consistency. hell, back in the day i had a model a ford powered a/c generator/welder that started with a hand crank. i learned about burning holes and gaps real fast if i were you i would put an ad in your local paper to rent a mig from someone, spend a half hour on some scrap and you will feel like a pro compared to that buzz box. i have been backyard welding for 20 years and professionally for 10. i have welded fence tubes that are .065 wall to 1/4 inch plate with a stick a/c welder, it can be done but takes lots of practice. if i burn a hole in a fence post i grab a new one. you cant just do that with a hard tail. another option you probably dont want to hear is to talk to an auto shop and see if they will do it after hours for some cash or beer

Good points, all.

DLD1

 

[coughing skunk]

Being in Ithaca You might try TSC, They sell welding supplies. Is there a Harbor Freight near you?
I don't think the town I live in is that big. We don't even have a post office, A part time chuch, but no stores of any kind.
Leo

Don't you have the speedway near you? No need for any stores when you've got stock car racing to keep you busy!

Or is that Lebanon Valley? It's been a minute since I lived in the capitol region.

 

[650Skull]

I don't think a cheap welder like yours would have an inverter in it. If not and you being a novice it will cause you problems with fluctuating power, making it harder to lay an even weld and help to cause the holes.

Bought a 170 amp 10kilo shoulder welder with an inverter and that thing can weld thin metal with a 2.15mm rod and at 30 amps.

Practice, and i would be using old tube to get it right not the frame.

I think most tig/mig welders have an inverter in them and that is why a lot of people say they are a superior and better than a stick welder, and it is only because of the inverter.