Fuel in oil

[ReycleBill]

So have you been able to determine when the gas is getting in your oil?

Gas gets in oil only when bike is parked and not running= fuel system-- petcocks, floats, seals, needle and seat...

Gas gets in oil only when bike is running= worse-- floats, seals, needle and seat... or internal engine problems.

A compression test will tell you a lot about the condition of your engine. And while you've got the plugs out, take pictures.

Good luck! I had to track down a bad tank vent on my favorite XS just today, did a temporary fix and will order parts for the correct fix today.

 

[moltarscott]

So have you been able to determine when the gas is getting in your oil?

Gas gets in oil only when bike is parked and not running= fuel system-- petcocks, floats, seals, needle and seat...

Gas gets in oil only when bike is running= worse-- floats, seals, needle and seat... or internal engine problems.

A compression test will tell you a lot about the condition of your engine. And while you've got the plugs out, take pictures.

Good luck! I had to track down a bad tank vent on my favorite XS just today, did a temporary fix and will order parts for the correct fix today.

when it sits is the main problem, honestly I don't drive it that much. I'd say 95% is when it sits. 5% while driving probably from just having a rich condition/semi bad rigs.

after I do the compression test i'm going to try and level up the bike a bit to see if that makes any difference like ReycleBill suggested. Then i'll tilt it forward and back to see if it helps any.

I'll post tonight what results I have form the compression test.

 

[moltarscott]

Compression test was good, cold bike: 151 on right side 149 on the left. that is within spec so I didn't put it back together for a warm run. Should I do that/ what is next?

Next is making the bike level to test float screwiness (real word I swear).

Any other ideas?

 

[gggGary]

That IS good compression. Never say never but I would say it rules out rings bad enough that that is the problem.
I want to chew on this a bit more before givin' out any more idears..

 

[ReycleBill]

How do the spark plugs read?

Were they wet?

Wet with oil?

Wet with gas?

Are the tips black, white or tan?

Do they have soot on them?

The compression is like new-- odds are the rings are okay.

Have you measured how much oil you drained out when you changed the oil?

 

[gggGary]

The carbs brass float or foam float BS34s? I would put a fuel level test tube on them and watch it for a day or two and see what happens. I see you have hose on the crank case vent. Where does it go? anything coming out of it?

 

[moltarscott]

How do the spark plugs read?

Were they wet?

Wet with oil?

Wet with gas?

Are the tips black, white or tan?

Do they have soot on them?

The compression is like new-- odds are the rings are okay.

Have you measured how much oil you drained out when you changed the oil?

spark plugs are black with soot. I mean I know the bike runs rich.

I have never measured it with anything that has accurate measuring lines but I do know when I go to put the old oil into the jugs it came in it never fits back in and I usually make a fracing mess to and it still doesn't fit in. I'll drain the oil in a few minutes and measure to see how much I have now vs. how much I put in.

 

[ReycleBill]

spark plugs are black with soot. I mean I know the bike runs rich.

I have never measured it with anything that has accurate measuring lines but I do know when I go to put the old oil into the jugs it came in it never fits back in and I usually make a fracing mess to and it still doesn't fit in. I'll drain the oil in a few minutes and measure to see how much I have now vs. how much I put in.

Don't worry about measuring-- you've obviously got more coming out than you put in.

This is crazy but could someone be playing a very bad practical joke on you by pouring gas in the oil when you're not watching?

In other words, I'm grasping at straws.

 

[moltarscott]

The carbs brass float or foam float BS34s? I would put a fuel level test tube on them and watch it for a day or two and see what happens. I see you have hose on the crank case vent. Where does it go? anything coming out of it?

Carbs are aftermarket not the original that come with the bike. they are 32mm Keihin carbs. I haven't had them opened yet (just got them last week).

crank case vent going to a filter on right hand side had it off before and nothing comming out of it, havn't checked it since last year though.

 

[moltarscott]

Don't worry about measuring-- you've obviously got more coming out than you put in.

This is crazy but could someone be playing a very bad practical joke on you by pouring gas in the oil when you're not watching?

In other words, I'm grasping at straws.

They better not be lol.

I'll keep updating after I go try some stuff on it.

thanks guys

 

[moltarscott]

Update:

ooookay

new oil. Took the bike down the road and I can see bubbles in the in-line fuel filter...
turned around parked the bike and fuel started coming out the left side carb overflow...

now i'm really confused... bubbles?! is that an air leak? I turned it to reserve while driving and then off...all had bubbles. also took the gas cap off while going home, still bubbles.

I'm really thinking the carb-gods hate me.

 

[moltarscott]

update #2

fixed problem #1: Floats set to wrong height from factory. Set them up right.

fixed problem #2: Manifolds are very cheap and don't have a notch that matches the carbs which means you can't just stick the carbs on without leveling them. noticed that the left one (the gas spewing one) was off quite a bit. Correctly leveled both. This was mostly my fault for being accustom to the linked BS34's I used to have.

fixed problem #3: Air screw on one side is slightly bent. might not be a problem but I heated it up and carefully put it strait.

fixed problem #4: Float on left side has a small abrasions on it. I'm not going to call it a crack because plastic floats can look cracked but still have a perfectly good seal. I put it under water and it floated no problem with no bubbles coming from it even if i squeezed it a little. I switched it to the other "better" working carb to see if it has any effect.


Went down on the main jet and pilot jet by one. Also went one notch up on the needle clip. I think I might have gone a little overboard on the leaning of the carbs but we will know for sure when I drive it and it comes back white on the new plugs. I also put the bike up on a makeshift stand for the night that keeps it perfectly level.

That's all I can do for tonight. I'll update tomorrow when I go outside and turn on the petcock and see F'ing gas run into the carbs like it always does. I will then set the carbs on fire and run them over with my car!

 

[ReycleBill]

update #2

fixed problem #1: Floats set to wrong height from factory. Set them up right.

fixed problem #2: Manifolds are very cheap and don't have a notch that matches the carbs which means you can't just stick the carbs on without leveling them. noticed that the left one (the gas spewing one) was off quite a bit. Correctly leveled both. This was mostly my fault for being accustom to the linked BS34's I used to have.

fixed problem #3: Air screw on one side is slightly bent. might not be a problem but I heated it up and carefully put it strait.

fixed problem #4: Float on left side has a small abrasions on it. I'm not going to call it a crack because plastic floats can look cracked but still have a perfectly good seal. I put it under water and it floated no problem with no bubbles coming from it even if i squeezed it a little. I switched it to the other "better" working carb to see if it has any effect.


Went down on the main jet and pilot jet by one. Also went one notch up on the needle clip. I think I might have gone a little overboard on the leaning of the carbs but we will know for sure when I drive it and it comes back white on the new plugs. I also put the bike up on a makeshift stand for the night that keeps it perfectly level.

That's all I can do for tonight. I'll update tomorrow when I go outside and turn on the petcock and see F'ing gas run into the carbs like it always does. I will then set the carbs on fire and run them over with my car!

I think you're off to a good start. Let us know how it goes.

PS. Just so you know, nothing is set from the factory these days as a cost cutting measure.

 

[gggGary]

+1 with an organized attack like that you will get it sorted (or crushed, LOL) Keep up the good work and keep us in the loop!

 

[xjwmx]

Take a long piece of hose and connect it to your petcock and run the end into a jar on the floor. Let the bike sit overnight. Do it two or three nights if you want. If there's no gas in the jar, there's not really any gas in your oil. Duct tape something over the top of the jar so gas won't dry up, but leave a tiny air hole.

 

[moltarscott]

Take a long piece of hose and connect it to your petcock and run the end into a jar on the floor. Let the bike sit overnight. Do it two or three nights if you want. If there's no gas in the jar, there's not really any gas in your oil. Duct tape something over the top of the jar so gas won't dry up, but leave a tiny air hole.

I have no problems with gas coming from the petcock into the carbs overnight. So this test doesn't help me.

My problem is the gas left over in the carbs after the bike is shut off drains into the engine. Even if the petcock isn't connected to the carbs the remaining gas still flows into the engine.

thanks for the help though

 

[jamesgs4]

Do you hang your bike up by the rear wheel every night? Try the petcock test first, because without airflow and throttle actuation, there really is no way for the gas to get from the bowls into the case, unless it is being forced out.

 

[shotgunjoe]

unless it is being forced out.

You may be on to something... what could force it out?

 

[moltarscott]

update # 3

Okay, I'm very scared to touch it now because we have success. Turned the petcock on and the carbs didn't fill back up with gas.

It must have been the crooked way the carbs were on there not letting the floats seat properly/the needle position letting the gas in. Or a combination of that and having the bike level.

I've take it off the leveling mechanism (ahem, bunch of bricks and wood) to see if anything happens over the next 8 hours of so. If it leaks after I take it down I guess i'll have to mess with the float height to try and compensate for the low back end.

I'm still skeptical about it being fixed for sure but at least i'm heading in the right direction.

jamesgs4 and xjwmx: I'm going to install an inline fuel valve just to make sure it's not a petcock problem, also I"m sure it will go sooner or later because we have nasty gas around these parts.

I think I'll also install clear fuel lines so I can see gas flow and maybe figure out the weird "bubbles while driving" thing.

Thanks for all yer help everyone, I'll be sure to return the favor if I can.

 

[5twins]

Now, I'm grasping at straws here too, but have you checked the engine breather? Maybe it's plugged and when the motor cools and contracts, a vacuum forms in the cases, sucking fuel in. I'd take the housing off and inspect it and the holes in the motor. Heck, you've tried just about everything else, lol.