Getting next to naked 'bars

[fredintoon]

Recent posts about suicide shifters triggered memories of the control layout of a former neighbor's Harley.
He claimed he'd made the changes so the controls were as close as he could get to the controls on his car and that the similarity would give his response time an edge in emergencies.
The only controls still on his bars were the twistgrip and electrical switches.
Left foot clutch.
Left side hand shift.
Right foot coupled hydraulics operating both brakes.
Just a layout suggestion for the list's extreme bike builders, the ones who say cables look ugly.

 

[5twins]

I can't see riding one handed while I fuggle the suicide shift during a panic stop helping my chances of success very much, lol.

 

[scabber]

That's why they call them suicide. Weren't many cars when bikes came with them.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

My fondest memory of suicide setup.

Friend of mine, inexperienced bad-ass wannabe, showin' off.
Chopped open-primary '57 panhead hardtail with apehangers.

Add 6 beers.

He took off, only went about 30 feet, wobbled, dropped it on left side.

His left leg is pinned under the bike, Harley engine still chuffin' away.

He's yellin' his head off while the primary is sawing thru his calf.

It was one of those times where we just stood there, frozen in awe and disbelief.

*Blink*, *blink*, shake head, wake up. Holy crap!!!

Dash over there and lift the still-running bike off him. Leg covered in blood and chewed-up denim.

That was it for him. Never walked right after that...

 

[5twins]

..... now he walks left .....

 

[EvenmoreXS]

..... now he walks left .....

Nope..


Circles

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

..... now he walks left .....

Aaaaahaha, good one 5T! That hit my funny-bone, thanx.

Yeah. He hadn't had that bike for very long, still learnin' on it.

Invited us over for a few beers and to show off his new ride.

He definitely had bad-ass potential, significantly enhanced after those 6 beers.
So, you didn't tell him what to or not to do.

Kinda like a torpedo. Once launched, you have no control over him.

That story was mostly to express the oughtas and shouldn't oughtas...

 

[fredintoon]

I can't see riding one handed while I fuggle the suicide shift during a panic stop helping my chances of success very much, lol.

Hi 5twins,
hey, I didn't say it was a good idea, just something that the aesthetics before function guys might like to try.
But I suppose it'd work OK in a panic stop so long as you didn't take too much time grabbing for a front brake lever that wasn't there.
Bike has left foot operated clutch and right foot operated linked brakes.
Stomping down with both feet will disengage the engine and apply both brakes.
Hopefully a solo rider would remember to put the tranny in neutral before coming to a complete halt so as to free up a foot to stand on.
Us sidecar riders wouldn't care.

 

[westonboege]

I was thinking about a suicide shift on a future xs build... There are ways that you can have a foot clutch lock in the down position... that way you can lock the clutch down and leave it in gear and still put your foot down...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Fred, is his setup with the heel-toe 'overcenter' foot clutch, that stays disengaged?

 

[5twins]

Linked brakes can be a double edged sword as well. Once during a panic stop, I locked the rear brake. The rear end started sliding out on me. I released the rear brake and it straightened right out, all the while continuing to brake with the front. You wouldn't be able to do that with a linked system. There's also the question of whether or not some guy in his garage can put together a linked system with proper proportioning between the front and rear so the rear won't lock up on you in a panic stop.

 

[fredintoon]

Fred, is his setup with the heel-toe 'overcenter' foot clutch, that stays disengaged?

Hi 2Many,
Gawd, I dunno. It was years ago and I had one brief talk with the owner and look at the bike when I was walking the dog past his driveway.
But yeah, an overcenter clutch would definitely work better.
I knew you guys would be able to work out the details, eh?

 

[NONclow]

Fred, is his setup with the heel-toe 'overcenter' foot clutch, that stays disengaged?

My good ol' buddy (also known as me dad) has just that setup. Friction disc/locknut tension adjustment at the pedal, stock. You can start it, put it in gear, get off and go have a cup o' coffee, it won't move. Great for panic stops when a foot down is desired.

As for the bars, throttle on the right, mirror and front brake on the left. Front brake on a chopper?!?....who'da thunk it! lol

Oh yeah, and a jockey shift. Loose linkage: gone.

.........My leg is aching just reading that story TwoMany!!

 

[retiredgentleman]

Hi 5twins,
hey, I didn't say it was a good idea, just something that the aesthetics before function guys might like to try.
But I suppose it'd work OK in a panic stop so long as you didn't take too much time grabbing for a front brake lever that wasn't there.
Bike has left foot operated clutch and right foot operated linked brakes.
Stomping down with both feet will disengage the engine and apply both brakes.
Hopefully a solo rider would remember to put the tranny in neutral before coming to a complete halt so as to free up a foot to stand on.
Us sidecar riders wouldn't care.

In an emergency stop, you don't want to disengage the engine. Its better to gain some braking effect from the engine as it stalls.

In an actual real emergency (deer running in front of bike, as bike is going about 80km/hr) there's no time to select neutral, which would be a bad idea anyway. You focus on maximum braking, steering the bike with 2 hands, as it slides, and the engine just stalls.

Its all over in a split second, with no time to touch the shift lever or the clutch lever.

Luck was with me that day, and I only hit the deer's back leg, as it flew by in front of my rapidly decelerating bike.

 

[member3480]

You guys are funny and I can tell who's old like me HAHA
My first experience with suicide shift was on a 45 Harley and boy the first couple times I rode it I was shitting my pants. How do I stop? what happens if I got to stop fast? how do I remember all this shit HAHA... I did it and it was cool but not for everyone.
I have had a couple Harleys that were suicide and I built three for customers two XS650 and a CB750. Surprise Surprise the XS650 was the most fun to ride because the bike was so small and light it was easy to throw it around on the rode and its just like driving a stick shift car. No PANIC stops and if you did I would not push in the clutch I would like someone said let the motor in gear help slow you down. Like anything else you get use to it and again its not for everyone. The only problem on the XS650 is the worm it can go past the stop and clutch disengages so that is why I came up with the Harley brake master cylinder and a slave on the cover . Very smooth just like the hand clutch master and you can't push it past any stop. I just got three people asking if I could build them a setup but I don't do them anymore RETIRED THING!!!
But it is nice to hear comments about SUICIDE SHIFT and just maybe my elevator in my head never went to the top floor and I lived a dangerous life RACING cars and Bikes and building big. So you guys got to put a SUICIDE SHIFT ride on the bucket list.
HAVE A GREAT DAY
Rich
P.S. NON is that a turbo GPZ or injected. I got one killer setup for a Turbo. Had my GPZ750 go low 9 second pases

 

[gggGary]

It might help to remember that from the same time period as those "brake systems" the common wisdom was when it turned to shlitz the smart thing to do was "lay her down". This was still being preached as gospel by "some" riders in the 70's!

I had a rock climbing buddy that used that lay her down stopping method with a Harley many years ago. The back of a truck completed the stop. He had to threaten the surgeon with great bodily harm to stop him from amputating a leg. While swimming one day I saw the whole thing. Hard to believe what they had cobbled together from what was left. With grit and determination he walked on it, and honest to god was a better rock climber than I ever was. He made his living as a carpenter too, but I can guarantee he "knew about" that leg every step of his life.

Life is so fleeting and fragile. Just riding any motorcycle out with the idiots is plenty risky. If you ride, sooner or later you will want all of the best brakes you have available. Ride with some hokey brake/shift contraption and one day you will have a few LOOONG seconds to regret your "looks so cool" choices. Yeah we ride bikes, so all of us are taking chances. I will have an early drum front XS on the road this year. I'm going to work with Michael Morse to get it to stop as good as possible but it remains to be seen how much I'll actually want to ride it. I'm old enough to remember trying to stop drum front brake bikes back in the day, makes my palms sweat thinking about it. Last year I rode a "just want to see how the engine runs" bike up the road a few blocks with no front brake. I had scared the wee out of myself before I even got it stopped at the end of the driveway. I would not do that to myself on a regular basis for anything.

 

[DIRTY DOG]

I like the suicide shift but as I get older I also like two feet on the ground at stop lights,lol as for the clean/naked bar look I like that too and am thinking of hiden cables
inturnal twist throttle and cluth http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-CHOP...RS-BSA-TRIUMPH-/321619945715?pt=Motorcycles_P

 

[member3480]

Gary well said
We all have this crazy bug to ride a motorcycle and weather its the WANT to be different or just the LOVE of the ride we all will go down or have some story that it almost happened. Me myself I had my LAST RIGHTS TWICE once because of a motorcycle accident and having a priest praying over your broken body kinds of humbles you but doesn't change the out come. I spent 17 hours in a TRAMA Ward waiting to die and never happened. 19 weeks in recovery and I walked out on my own two feet with doctors scratching there heads. My broken bike was sold for parts and as I was getting my body back together I bought another without a blink. Was not able to ride it for the next six months but was able to look at it every day. For me I LOVE MOTORCYCLES and have had them in my life since I was 14 yrs old. The story of a friend a family member or just a story you read of a motorcycle crash changes the mind of some and they never get the JOY it is to be FREE riding down a street or highway. That's the difference of a SINGLE PERSON or a BROTHERHOOD of riders.
Each person I pass or stop to talk to on a motorcycle is a BROTHER to me in something that I LOVE and life is way TOO SHORT not to try new things .
KEEP CHOPPIN & RIDING MY BROTHERS
Rich

 

[retiredgentleman]

"If you ride, sooner or later you will want all of the best brakes you have available. Ride with some hokey brake/shift contraption and one day you will have a few LOOONG seconds to regret your "looks so cool" choices."

Gary, no truer words were ever spoken!

I'm always amazed when guys come on the site and say they are "modifying" their brakes as part of their "build". They crave that "clean look", achieved by using a cable to a remote M/C, or the ultimate clean look by "shaving the forks" and tossing out that dead weight front brake!

We even see guys post about removing a front disc brake and installing a drum brake. Obviously those guys are too young to have driven cars/trucks/bikes back in the 1960's, when all vehicles had drum brakes.

You just can't save people from themselves.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I'm reminded of my great-uncle's stories of the '30-'40s. He raced TT for Indian, claims to be the inventor of the strap-on steel skid plate for boots. Entered the Army at WW2, became a motorcycle courier.

He described the Army's training regimen, including the qualifying feats of skill. The period courier bike, suicide shift and all, included front and rear hoops, what we nowadays would call 'crash bars', he referred to them as 'skid bars'.

One qualification test, you had to blaze down a dirt road or grass field at full speed, lay it down, skid on those 'skid bars' for at least 100 feet (clearancing under live fire!), then, while still skidding at speed, upright the bike and continue on full bore down the road.

After the war, he returned to racing Indians until their demise.

In 1970, I let him ride my stock Honda CB350. He didn't like it. Twist grip spark advance is stuck, goofy shifting, no floorboards, and, most importantly, the handlebars were way too narrow. Should be at least 36" wide, low, swept back, and be able to touch your thighs at full turn.

Times sure change, huh?