Good Heart, Bad Intentions: another build thread

[Makr]

Good sir, I have been a machinist for nearly thirty years. You have not one thing to be ashamed of.

Everything on my XS build is done on a million dollar machining center, with all the latest software, but your innovations and well thought out plan completely inspire me (I fully stole your hydraulic clutch idea).

Having said that: please don't use the clubmans. They are such a cop-out. The rest of the project has been modified for reason to make it a better bike in your eyes...the clubmans are sad way of lowering the bars with not much commitment.

On with the show!

 

[osteoderm]

Good sir, I have been a machinist for nearly thirty years. You have not one thing to be ashamed of.

Thanks for the kind words. I can't take all the credit, as I have been lucky to have a very knowledgeable engineer and machinist available to double-check my schemes.

Having said that: please don't use the clubmans. They are such a cop-out.

I'm not sold on the clubmans either. I'd like to run some sort of proper handlebar instead of clip-ons, low, but not like these. Maybe flipped low-rise tracker bars? I'm going to borrow a few more different bars to try.

Clip-ons would certainly offer more ultimate adjustability, but my hands want to fall into place somewhat rearward of the fork-tube centerline, but with less pullback than most clip-ons could offer if adjusted that way. This suggests mounting the clip-ons behind the fork tubes instead of ahead of them, which leads to tank clearance issues... and just looks goofy to me.

The TT500 upper triple-clamp has a very slick and integrated mount for bars (no awkward XS650 rubber-mount riser holes) that is begging to be put to use. Mounting a bar where a bar was designed to be mounted feels... right. The bar above the triple-clamp also helps to hide the somewhat clunky-looking extension of the fork tubes above the clamp, and may provide a little more latitude with reservoir mounting.

Another consideration is one of overall theme. My vision has always been more "bratstyle" than "cafe racer", and clip-ons definitely push the image towards the latter. However, I'm trying to relax and let the build pick it's own direction, and lately, more cafe is starting to creep in...

Either way, it's far from settled in my mind.

 

[AussieHard]

Just a suggestion why don't you try fitting bars that bolt to the usual point on the trees but to the underside rather than on top?

I have seen it done on a number of bikes and it can look good. I think Hugh did it on one of his first bikes as well if you need a reference to what I am talking about.

 

[beaver]

what upper fork tree are you using?

 

[osteoderm]

Just a suggestion why don't you try fitting bars that bolt to the usual point on the trees but to the underside rather than on top?

I know what you're speaking of, and that's a nice look, but these aren't XS650 trees; no risers, no provision to flip 'em.

what upper fork tree are you using?

The trees are 1976 TT500. I'll grab a better picture of the bar-mount today and post it.

 

[osteoderm]

Pics as promised:

The bars just miss touching the upper fork tubes.

 

[pregrid]

A miss is as good as a mile........................

 

[osteoderm]

Today I hoped to have finished answering gggGary's accurate question:

Now I gotta ask, what about the "centering flange" for the rotors on the spacers...

A spacer, without centering flange:

Lay the rotor on top:

Take my right-rear Omar's adapter, aka "Omar's Universal Brake Alignment Tool", and drop into place. I make sure that the bolt holes in the disc and spacer line up, but rotate the OUBAT to approx midway between holes:

Clamp the aligned stack together, used a 21/64" transfer punch through the OUBAT to mark pin locations. Drilled 3/32" hole through rotor carrier and into spacer.

Three evenly-spaced 3/8"x3/32" roll pins in each side holds the discs firm and centered to the spacers. The pins should only need to align things; the six bolts will do all the real work.

 

[KentMoney]

I'm glad for the kind words and support of the people following this thread...




Like most backyard builders, it's a constant struggle to fill the gap between my resources and my expectations.

I read other build threads and am amazed at the work going on out there, and stoked to see all the glamour-shots of bikes nearing completion. In contrast, I scroll back through this thread and think, "Wow, what a bunch of boring pics of random bits of fabrication...". I'm not trying to show "machining expertise" (hah!); it's just that I've never done any of this before, and it's all new and interesting... and I've always wanted to see the steps that other builders seem to never show!

Anyways, I'm really grateful for the support and encouragement, but please, nobody should think that I'm any sort of expert, or believe for an instant that they couldn't do way better with less.

just wanted to say that I really like your outlook on things and I couldn't agree more. wise words for sure.

and thanks for taking the time to document the step-by-step stuff. the reason the others of us don't is because it take so much time to upload those pics to the computer, crop and compress, upload them to the net, and then embed them in this thread. a lot of work, so kudos to you for really doing your 'build thread' proper. it will be a great resource.

and one last worthless comment: scrap those hydraulic reservoirs! go with something cleaner and more modern like these JayBrakes. or do you like the look of the ones you are using?

 

[osteoderm]

just wanted to say that I really like your outlook on things and I couldn't agree more. wise words for sure... ...and thanks for taking the time to document the step-by-step stuff.

Thanks! I appreciate the interest.

and one last worthless comment: scrap those hydraulic reservoirs! go with something cleaner and more modern like these JayBrakes.

If my budget allowed, I'd go with all-ISR for braking; levers, hubs, rotors, calipers, the works. But back to reality...

I don't care for the looks of the external plastic jar-type reservoirs myself, and am scheming on ways to change them. Otherwise, I do like the looks of the radial master cylinders. On a cost/benefit curve alone, it's really hard to beat using these stock-application Brembo units: plentiful, affordable, serviceable, and effective.

 

[KentMoney]

i got one of these from mikes XS and it does the job, not sure if it will work with non-stock calipers though.

 

[osteoderm]

I replaced my stocker with a unit from Mike's, and was satisfied. Moving to stock dual discs (my original plan) would have required another master cylinder change, probably to Mike's #08-3000.

When I was shopping for M/C units, Mike's was still $99. I found the radial Brembo for $140. Smaller, lighter, adjustable, better feel, and better ratio for the 4-pot calipers I ended up with. I feel it was a significant upgrade in function/performance for a very reasonable increase in expense.

I actually scored the matching clutch-side M/C first, which was looking even harder to find in a less-expensive package that appealed to me. Now the two sides match, for what it's worth...

 

[osteoderm]

The rear brake has been the next engineering hurdle to overcome. In retrospect, just about any other way of doing it would have been easier... My master plan has always been to have a rear disc, preferably as small as safely possible, with an integrated mount, ie., no torque-link.

I researched and researched, and got to this point:

This is the caliper and mount from a 2010 Aprilia RSV4. I really wanted to get the caliper mounted high and forward, where the stock shock/spring would be, just because. The Aprilia mount only works with the caliper below the swingarm. There's a Ducati high-mount that works with the exact same caliper, but the mount is shaped in a way that doesn'y work well with a straight steel swingarm. Like I said, I should have done something simpler.

Either style of mount requires an interfacing "nipple" on the inside face of the swingarm to key into the caliper mount:

Still shaping, getting closer. Ack, those stock welds look so gross, but not bad enough to redo.

Welded and primed.

With the caliper and bracket mocked into place. I'm painting all the non-alloy parts, but the "nipple" itself is stainless steel, so no worries if it looses a little paint over time as the chain is adjusted.

 

[Tack427]

Doesnt the caliper bleeder have to be at the highest point, so the air can be bleed.
I'm not a brake expert just i alway thought that.

 

[osteoderm]

Doesnt the caliper bleeder have to be at the highest point, so the air can be bleed.
I'm not a brake expert just i alway thought that.

I wondered about that too. These particular Brembo units are flexible in that regard; the inlet banjo and bleeder bolts are interchangable, so the line could be mounted lower/rearward of the bleeder.

I like this line position better as it is. The caliper is so accessible and self-contained that It will be relatively simple to unbolt it and bleed it off the bike.

 

[pregrid]

Ya just can't do ANYTHING the easy way, can ya?

 

[XSLeo]

The only time the bleeder needs to be at the high point of the caliper is while bleeding.
If your caliper has the bleeder in the wrong position, just remove the caliper from the mount. Hold it so the bleeder is up, bleed the brakes, then put the caliper back on the mount.
Leo

 

[osteoderm]

Ya just can't do ANYTHING the easy way, can ya?

Kinda one of those "six of one, half a dozen of the other" scenarios. The TX750 swingarm was from a drum-brake application, so notwithstanding all the other swingarm mods, I would have had to weld something on for the torque link anyways. Since I didn't have a stock rear disc setup to work with, I was pretty much starting from scratch regardless.

I considered a stock XS rear disc, the RD rear, and Omar's bracket and disc, but they were all either large, expensive, or both. Didn't seem like much of a stretch to go for the full Italian superbike treatment... smaller, lighter, cheaper, and only a little more fab work.

 

[osteoderm]

Not much going on in the shop this weekend.

I stripped and hit the frame with etching primer; still have a few things to fab/weld on the frame, but it was a morale booster to see it all one color and protect the bare welds from previous work.

Primed and painted the motor mounts, swingarm, rocker link, and dogbones, then assembled the rear suspension with all the bushings, bearings, keepers, etc. in place.

The paint is a deep dark green, with almost a touch of deep blue in the sunlight. Finished a '51 Merc flathead engine in a similar shade a few months back, and have been fixated on this color ever since.

The dogbone links are pretty much fixed in position by the swingarm and rocker link, so these nuts are really there to keep the bronze bushings in place. Even without much load on them, I'm feeling paranoid... think I'll replace those wee cotter pins with a few wraps of beefier safety wire.

Well, almost afraid to say it... but with that, the front and rear suspension are done..

 

[1974jh5]

'Better' is the enemy of 'done'. Outstanding progress!