Help! Convert back to battery start!

[jgimar]

well, I'm back from the depths of anxiety! Got my bike altogether and set it up with a Hughes PMA, electronic ignition, and a capacitor to make it a kick start. But unfortunately, the system worked well but my knee doesn't. So. I have to go back to a Battery and my question is, what all will I need to accomplish this? Do I need to reinstall everything or are there some electrics I may omit? Or am I stuck with having to wire back in every little piece like the rectifier, solenoid, etc.? any help if I can simplify the work involved greatly appreciated.

 

[650Skull]

The wiring part is not that difficult. Can run a loom alongside the one on the bike.

If the starter gears were removed when it was apart then they have to be reinstalled.

I have some diagrams on the different circuits(ignition), but I am not at home right now. Will post them up when I get home

 

[jgimar]

Yes. Starter gears were left in it when redone. Obviously, I removed the regulator, starter solenoid, handlebar controls were changed (realize I’ll need a starter button added back in). Short of having to redo a complete re- install, any possible modification or shortcut greatly appreciated.

 

[650Skull]

Have you removed the kill witch??

 

[650Skull]

77 diagram.....................No need for the safety relay can be bypassed now your using a PMA. Yellow wire on Factory alternator stops starter motor from running on once engine has fired. ......................

Not sure so someone else can/needs, to confirm/deny, the safety relay, (yellow wire), can be hooked into one leg of the 3 wires from the PMA to trigger the starter cut off, if you want to install the Safety Relay

Chopped diagram shows points without the starter circuit. Starter circuit shown in top right corner. Wire colours make to suit

Another chopper diagram, (Ignition circuit only), with pamco, with the starter circuit, (solenoid/relay), in shadow.

 

[jgimar]

Have you removed the kill witch??

The right hand control has a kill switch and on/off for head lamp but no start button.

 

[jgimar]

77 diagram.....................No need for the safety relay can be bypassed now your using a PMA. Yellow wire on Factory alternator stops starter motor from running on once engine has fired. ......................

Not sure so someone else can/needs, to confirm/deny, the safety relay, (yellow wire), can be hooked into one leg of the 3 wires from the PMA to trigger the starter cut off, if you want to install the Safety Relay
View attachment 255135

Chopped diagram shows points without the starter circuit. Starter circuit shown in top right corner. Wire colours make to suit
View attachment 255140
Another chopper diagram, (Ignition circuit only), with pamco, with the starter circuit, (solenoid/relay), in shadow.
View attachment 255141

Thank you for the diagrams. Take me a bit to look ‘em over. Got to blow’em up and print ‘em off so I can see ‘em. Let ya know how things go.

 

[650Skull]

If the button is missing MikesXS sells them

 

[jgimar]

If the button is missing MikesXS sells them

 

[jgimar]

Alrighty! You all have been a great help and I think I'm ready to proceed with this insanity. I have gathered several diagrams for re-wiring my bike, and a couple of diagrams jumps out in particular.
One diagram shows a simple wiring system using a PMA and a capacitor, I think this is what I used and the way it is wired as of late. The other shows PMA with a battery setup which is what I wish to return to.
My question is, the first referred to (capacitor), shows no need for a starter solenoid obviously. The latter of the two showing a battery also makes no reference to the need of a starter solenoid. Am I reading that right? Judging by the diagrams all needs be done is a switch of the capacitor to a battery? On/off switch is accounted for, kill switch is accounted for, starter button accounted for. I see nothing about a "starter solenoid." Could I be that lucky and not have to mess with one? Again help and advise appreciated.

 

[jetmechmarty]

You will need a starter relay (solenoid). Without it, start switch is going to have to carry a whole lot of amps. Also, all the starter wiring is going to have to be battery cable size.

 

[650Skull]

The diagrams all show a solinoid and battery. They are a must to operate electric start as Marty points out the cable from battery positive to starter motor is a cable.

 

[jgimar]

The diagrams all show a solenoid and battery. They are a must to operate electric start as Marty points out the cable from battery positive to starter motor is a cable.

The diagrams you supplied me with do show the solenoid. I had run across a couple of others showing a PMA setup with battery or capacitor but neither made reference nor showed a solenoid. I searched further after your response to my last question and located more diagrams, in this case corroborating what you said and a bit easier for me to follow. So, following your advice and help, I think I will be off and running to complete this switch. Thank you all again!

 

[jgimar]

Quik question in regard to what we have talked about (converting back to electric start). I have collected all that I need to perform the task but in regard to the left side starter reduction gears. There is a part in my Clymer called a "lock washer". Rather easy to figure out its location in assembly but is it a loose-fitting item or is there some tension involved? Like enough to stay in place when slipped on the #2 shaft, or just slip on and hope for the best? Awful loose! It's been so long since I removed it all, I can't remember. any advice thanks again.

 

[jpdevol]

I'm unsure which part you're referencing?

 

[jgimar]

View attachment 256965
I'm unsure which part you're referencing?

Sorry, didn’t get an alert that you had replied. In the exploded view, it’s #22. Thanks

 

[jpdevol]

Sorry, didn’t get an alert that you had replied. In the exploded view, it’s #22. Thanks

#22 is a "wavy washer"; it's function is to provide a little lateral tension on the gear assy. (perhaps for rattle reduction). It will fit rather loosely on the shaft IIRC.

 

[jgimar]

Very good, thank you. Didn’t know if needed to be loose or snug.

#22 is a "wavy washer"; it's function is to provide a little lateral tension on the gear assy. (perhaps for rattle reduction). It will fit rather loosely on the shaft IIRC.

 

[jgimar]

Alright, one more question, the oil seal for the starter to reduction gear housing.
#23 in the exploded view, the Yamaha part number shows 93102-34095-00, or MM size 34 x 46 x 10.5 - 306. Now, I have come across a lot of 36 x 46 x 10.5 seals, mainly listed as fork seals. the difference being they don't include that 306 number. Some don't list any end number, others do. What I am curious about is: Are all 34 x 46 x x10.5 seals the same or does that 306 number differentiate that particular seal from the others? Reason I'm curious is a single seal as sold for the intended use is kind of pricey whereas being listed as a fork seal of that size, they are cheaper and/or sold in pairs or more. I would think is listed as a 34 x 46 x 10.5 seal, they would all be compatible, but I've been known to be wrong, many times! Any help, thanks.

 

[jgimar]

Very good, thank you. Didn’t know if needed to be loose or snug.

Alright, one more question, the oil seal for the starter to reduction gear housing.
#23 in the exploded view, the Yamaha part number shows 93102-34095-00, or MM size 34 x 46 x 10.5 - 306. Now, I have come across a lot of 36 x 46 x 10.5 seals, mainly listed as fork seals. the difference being they don't include that 306 number. Some don't list any end number, others do. What I am curious about is: Are all 34 x 46 x x10.5 seals the same or does that 306 number differentiate that particular seal from the others? Reason I'm curious is a single seal as sold for the intended use is kind of pricey whereas being listed as a fork seal of that size, they are cheaper and/or sold in pairs or more. I would think is listed as a 34 x 46 x 10.5 seal, they would all be compatible, but I've been known to be wrong, many times! Any help, thanks.