-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
High ratio primary install
- Thread starter yamahammer
- Start date
I am looking forward to the machining of the cover for clearance. I have the same gears, still waiting to be installed.
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
Yea, that's what is holding me up. I'm taking the parts to a local machine shop today.
Did you mean the cover with the oil pump in it? I just hogged it out a bit with an angle grinder.
Did you mean the cover with the oil pump in it? I just hogged it out a bit with an angle grinder.
These are the only 2 pics I have, showing the clearancing on the primary's filter housing...
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
I installed the crank gear and gently pushed the cover into place. I then pulled the cover back off and took my angle grinder to the spot where the teeth had indented the aluminum. I will post a pic when I get home.
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
Ok. I got my clutch back together, I had a little confusion as Ivan included a new roller bearing that is different and it took me a bit to realize thats because his roller bearing primary is a different size! I felt dumb but I got it fingered out.
Forgot to mention, I put my clutch basket together with m8 Allen head cap screws threaded into heli coils in the clutch basket (with red loctite). Then I spin a thin nut onto what is still sticking out and tighten the hell out of it with a chisel. I peen the thin nuts to the bolt and install the clutch hub. Tighten it up, spin it a few times by hand. Disassemble, see the drag marks from the bolt/nuts, go hog wild with your angle grinder until there's enough clearance. Done.
Forgot to mention, I put my clutch basket together with m8 Allen head cap screws threaded into heli coils in the clutch basket (with red loctite). Then I spin a thin nut onto what is still sticking out and tighten the hell out of it with a chisel. I peen the thin nuts to the bolt and install the clutch hub. Tighten it up, spin it a few times by hand. Disassemble, see the drag marks from the bolt/nuts, go hog wild with your angle grinder until there's enough clearance. Done.
Attachments
Last edited:
Now I have a really dumb question. What happens with the oil pump/ tacho drive when installeing a high ratio primary? Or differently put, what gear is driving the oil pump (driven) gear?
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
Theres a smaller gear on the same shaft as the primary gear. It goes on after the main primary drive gear.
Edit, mine has it's case hardening starting to get thin so I will be ordering a new one.
Edit, mine has it's case hardening starting to get thin so I will be ordering a new one.
Could you please explain, to this shade tree mechanic, what exactly is a high ratio primary and what does it do for you? Thanks.
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
It makes the engine spin more slowly in relation the the clutch/trans input shaft.
My objective is to lessen highway rpms and also to make kick-starts easier. The electric start is very shortsighted and nearly pointless on these bikes.
My objective is to lessen highway rpms and also to make kick-starts easier. The electric start is very shortsighted and nearly pointless on these bikes.
A larger gear (more teeth) on the crankshaft pinion, a smaller gear (fewer teeth) on the clutch basket. Raises the overall gear ratio, i.e more speed for same rpm and/ or less rpm for same speed.
Advantages are, as I see it:
- More rpm/ less torque on the clutch, so less chance of clutch slip/ no need for stiffer clutch springs.
- Significantly higher overall gearing, allowing the use of a larger rear sprocket. Which in turn can carry several advantages. Like less strain on the chain, no need for an 18 tooth countershaft sprocket, less chain rub on swing arm is longer shocks are used. (and longer shocks are a popular mod for better handling and ground clearance, etc)
- Less torque/ load on the gearbox as well.
- Concept is proven by Halco, and also by users of Ivan's kit, road and race.
Disadvantages, as I see it:
- Cost and effort. Some potential for quality issues, since it is not an OEM setup (rather unlikely, but..)
- More effort required for kickstarting, since the XS kickstart transmission goes through the primary gears.
Charles13
XS650 Addict
Are these available? I remember trying to get a set years ago and from someone making them and he was all out of stock and not making any more so I couldn’t get my hands on them
FLEA
XS650 Guru
good to see you got one of ivans , its a good product , put one on my xs to lessen the vibrations , have a bit of nerve damage that the vibrations turn into nerve pain ...found at 100kph or 60mph iv dropped about 1000 revs , as not looking for that extra gear going down the straight on a track iv upped the teeth on the back sprocket to 36 for a happy medium of less vibs and resonable exceleration , even better now rephased it , the little bit you have to grind off is easy done with a angle grinder without any dramas though got to admit ivan did it for me , have mine off the bike at the moment as changed motors but going back on again soon
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
It is much easier to kickstart now, I haven't been able to ride as I'm waiting for my clutch master cylinder/slave cylinder/line from Deutschland. I spent ~600 AUD on the primary gears and $75 USD on the machine shop to fit the driven gear, ~400 Euros on the clutch stuff as well as ~100 USD on the Alto 8 pack clutch stack. I never really sat down and added it all up but I've probably got close to 5 grand into this old girl including what I paid for it..
Oh well, it's my favorite!
Oh well, it's my favorite!
Attachments
Last edited:
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
I actually had both of my wrists "fixed" for carpal tunnel inflamation. That's why I originally decided to rephase but I love the sound and character of the engine too much to ever go back now. What is the change you're making by swapping engines?
Charles13
XS650 Addict
I can’t find anything about purchasing these headsets but these posts are new, can anyone point me in the right direction? I would really like to get a set and did contact someone years ago about but there where none left
I got mine from Ivan Hoey in Australia, around Melbourne somewhere I believe. Should be some info on the Australian XS club website.
yamahammer
XS650 Addict
I will PM the email address that I contacted to order the gears, web trawling bots could pick it up if I put it here. It's fairly straightforward but unless you are a machinist expect to sub out fitting the driven gear to a machine shop.
Last edited:
Charles13
XS650 Addict
Thanks
FLEA
XS650 Guru
just freshened up another motor but know what you mean dollar wise on orig motor going back in it , ratio gears around the 600 mark , 8 plate clutch $?? , heidens hyd clutch $??? mate to help fit so a couple of boxes of beer.. adds up real fast and thats only the clutch ...add on 750 kit/ pamco / pma / rephase with heidens street race cam / mukuni carbs adds up real quick .. no wonder got a mental blank how much spent on the motor over the yrs and thats in aust dollars without costing whats done to frame and rolling stock ... off the rd at the moment still fitting a r6 front end with powder coated wheels and new tyres , when back on the rd and running properly have a 2-1 forward facing carb manifold that will have a lectron carb(had both for yrs without using ) etc etc ... what the hell got to do it once in your life .. started off just planning on rephasing the motor and got carried away collecting all the parts over a few yrs
Last edited:
