How dumb can you be and still not get run off?

[eosdelb]

Look I dont claim to know much. The older I get the less I know. But my bike, the one that starts on the fist kick as long as you dont have any air filters on it, (only floods with them) has nothing under the points and advance covers! I dont know anything anymore. Is there anything about this in a Haynes manual?
I put new plugs in (hot) irridium type. and was going to file the points in and set them back to specs. Oh yeah, I was depending on my Haynes manual for the gap info. Didnt look it up after I couldnt find the points.
I dont understand how this bike runs. I love it but it dont seem normal.

 

[yamaman]

It's all ok, just relax........

XS's made before 1980 (in the US) came with points.
1980 on they came with Transistor Controlled Ignition (TCI)

The rotor on your alternator has a small magnet that sets off a trigger every revolution. This sends a signal to your TCI box, which in turn sends a signal to your coil.

All going well, you don't need to alter this set up. It's most probably set the same as it was when it left the factory!

 

[KevC]

Look I dont claim to know much. The older I get the less I know. But my bike, the one that starts on the fist kick as long as you dont have any air filters on it, (only floods with them)........

what air filters are you running?
cheap pod types can block the holes in carb, XSPerformance ones from MikesXS are ok & K&N's are better.

 

[Sundie]

Eos: the upshot of what Yam said is that you never had anything under those covers. They're leftovers from when there *was* something under them, and they fulfilled a function. Like your appendix. And your timing is non-adjustable.

 

[yamaman]

Timing on TCI models is not designed to be adjustable. You can remove the screws & elongate the hole to make it adjustable though, search xsjohns posts/pics for that.

When you say you fitted HOT irridium plugs, what is the plug#?

Also always leave both your plugs connected & grounded if checking for spark. A dead coil will be your only reward otherwise

 

[eosdelb]

Thanks for responding! the filters are mikes xs and they in no way get in the way of the holes in the front of the carbs (bs38)
The ngk plug number is bpr7eix. Thanks for the tip on not destroying my coil.

 

[Teebs]

I've seen this question come up a few times, in RL as well as online. Better to witness the utter confusion and subsequent embarrassment up close and in person, but still worth a good chuckle! Glad to see you handle your bafflement with good humor. None of us knows a damn thing.

 

[Tech7]

If his bike has bs 38's, wouldn't it be a pre 1980, therefore a points bike? I thought the TCI bikes came with 34's.

 

[eosdelb]

The bike serial on the frame and on my title is a 1979 model. The engine id # 2F0-203129 is a 1980 Xs650 sg according to Mikes XS. The carbs I am positive are bs38's. I dont know how the motor and frame got together. Might be a different year set of mikuni's than previously thought. Thanks Yall, I better do my real chores tomorrow.

 

[royfisk]

tech alot of bikes out there that when new carbs, and electrics are needed, people will run what they have on the shelf or bone yard. personaly I would run 38's over 34's everytime. Big John however would quiver on this mod. Also note that out of ALL the ignitions out there EVEN THE MOST EXPENSIVE AFTERMARKET ONES. I prefer the STOCK tci. Why? Good question. Its simple, It gives the most acurate timing. Now before you all get up in feathers, really think about this. It triggers off the crankshaft wolla perfect timing. THE REST go from the cam chain ( assumably it is always in perfect adjustment), then through the mechanical advance (which we know is always in perfect order and has perfect springs) and finaly to the trigger. Do the homework guys the stock tci is by all practical purposes the most accurate. If boyer and or pamco really wanted to do up a ignition right they would use 80 up rotor and stator and trigger from the crankshaft. THE BIGGEST PROBLAM I RUN INTO WITH POINTS BIKES IS NOT THE POINTS BUT THE ADVANCE UNIT. So all you boyer guys out there slam that, (I KNOW YOU WILL TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR PURCHASE).

 

[pumps]

eosdelb- that is not the first time that question has been asked. You are not alone my friend. Most of this is new to me and I ask a lot of questions all the time and they haven't run me off around here-yet. When I get it all figured out I'll let you know..
See the little magnet on the face of this rotor that triggers your XSs TCI?

 

[Sundie]

I prefer the STOCK tci. Why? Its simple, It gives the most acurate timing.

I don't think anyone disputes that. It's also provably tough, since there are many 30+ years old bikes on the road still running it. If i could find a NOS unit, i would snap it up and put it on my '78 in a second.

Now before you all get up in feathers, really think about this. It triggers off the crankshaft wolla perfect timing. THE REST go from the cam chain ( assumably it is always in perfect adjustment), then through the mechanical advance (which we know is always in perfect order and has perfect springs) and finaly to the trigger. Do the homework guys the stock tci is by all practical purposes the most accurate.

Already acknowledged. However, you're not including any of the points models, for which it's a definite upgrade.

If boyer and or pamco really wanted to do up a ignition right they would use 80 up rotor and stator and trigger from the crankshaft.

I can't speak for why boyer didn't do that, since AFIAK, the boxes are smart enough to have an advance curve built in. (but i imagine keeping costs low was the impetus).

Pamco, however, has the goal of simplicity and being inexpensive. Electronic pickup is indisputably better than points, and Pete's goal in designing the unit was simply to replace the points as an ignition pickup.

THE BIGGEST PROBLAM I RUN INTO WITH POINTS BIKES IS NOT THE POINTS BUT THE ADVANCE UNIT.

That's... Odd? Can you expound on what issues you found so difficult with the advance unit? And it's a little off your talking point (TCI) if you start talking about the advance unit... Something TCI doesn't have.

So all you boyer guys out there slam that, (I KNOW YOU WILL TRY TO JUSTIFY YOUR PURCHASE).

I would imagine a lot of the time it's a simple matter of availability and cost. If there are no TCI units on ebay, it's hard to replace it, at any cost. When there are, the cost difference between something brand new with a guarantee vs something that may not even work when it arrives at your door is often negligible. And the cost difference for a Pamco full kit vs just Boyer one is less than 1/2, IIRC.

So, the core point of your argument is "crank timing is more accurate than cam timing". Agreed. And if a TCI broke, and a kit existed to replace it that took crank timing vs cam timing, i'd have to carefully think about any cost differences being worth it. But there aren't.

I'm with you on those who simply replace their TCI's that are working. I'm not sure why they do it, except as i mentioned above - it's 30 years old. As it ages, it's going to be more and more likely to blow up, on average. I'm sure there will be people puttering around another 30 years from now still running TCI, but they'll be the exception.

Back to you, hit me with the caps locked passive aggressive absolutism, baby.

 

[royfisk]

well sundie
I personaly am running points bikes. The ignition points are scarry to those who never dealt with them. I have boughten points bikes from people who have ridden there bikes 10,000 miles and more and didnt even know that the bike had points. As for the tci units I use to save them on bikes I parted out, but got sick of listing them on ebay and not selling them. One thing about points that NO electronic ignition can claim is that if your points weird out on you on a ride you can usually get yourself home with them. electronic is dead it is just that. As for the advance Its a mechanical item that needs more maintenance. The will stick, springs will weaken, Its just another spot for STH. Between us I am almost set to try a morris mag off the crankshaft. Yes I know they have there downfalls as well. As far as costs go that is a no brainer If when you replace your stator and rotor do it with a 80 up, then you will always be tci ready. The stator and rotor for a 80 up will work on and fit all year xs's. Where as the pre 80 ones will only work on cam type ignitions. You say electronic is a upgrade to points, why is that? As I pointed out if the electronic dies you better be calling for a truck, If my points close up, or burn up I can file them ,re set them and more then likely get my arse home. As for the advance if you havent run into problams with them then you havent worked on enough of them and this is just a spot for arguementiveness.

 

[Tech7]

Let's not all get ugly here. It's a 30 year old motorcycle. I've been a mechanic for 25 years. Yes, crank trigger, electronic ignition is superior. Used to open points and file them on the side of the road, as well as replace ignition modules. But, as I said, it is a 30 year old motorcycle. Part of the fun is the fact that the shit runs and we're riding a bike. If I wanted a super reliable, super effiecient, globally accepted green machine, I'd go buy a new Honda. (or whatever)

 

[eosdelb]

Okay thanks, I figured I would get run off before it was over with. Didnt mean to start an argument.

 

[xsjohn]

eosdelb....You aren't getting run off.......

The only time my TCI bike has left me in 77 thou is when a fricken Chineese chain broke......and that was my fault because I had given the master link to my buddy and when time to change chains I re-used the link thinking I would replace it real soon and forgot......duh.........I always carry a spare tci box but have never needed it "yet".......think I forgot how to dick with points and ATU's...........

xsjohn

 

[pamcopete]

Well, as to running the ignition timing off of the cam shaft, the valves are run and timed off of the cam shaft as well, and they are subject to the same variations from the timing chain, worn chain, bad adjustments etc. The timing of the valves is just as important as the ignition timing.

The maintenance problems associated with the advance mechanism are mostly due to age and wear and tear. People will completely rebuild their engines, new pistons and cylinders, new timing chain and valves, but continue to use the 30 year old, worn out advance unit, and then complain that the timing is erratic. Go figure. The advance mechanism is just as important as the other sexier parts of the engine, but people stop short of buying a new advance unit and just go on and curse the 30 year old one.

The advance timing starts at 1,200 RPM and reaches its maximum at 3,000 RPM. Any problem you may have with the ignition system above 3,000 RPM, where the engine spends most of its time, cannot be caused by the advance mechanism.

 

[xsjohn]

If you really want to know how dumb you can be.........I spent the afternoon changing starter gears.........and guess what......I put the ole one back in.......instead of the new one by mistake..........

Well of course had to do it again....maybe it was worth it......refaced the #4 gear and took a bit of the rubber off the back so it moved ont the crank a bit more and spread the coil spring to .550 thou........

xsjohn

 

[Travis]

^^^ Thanks for the laugh!

 

[JAGUARGOD]

Hah.....tried splainin that to eosdelb on the phone , since he is my brother no reason to believe me.....LOL.....glad you guys could help...your esplainin was easier to understand.
I am learning as I go on my XS....I can come up with dumber stuff than him so watch out....HaHa