A chap with a moustache like that...just has to be a good guy.
Stick at it Greg - you’ll get there.
Pete
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
Hurricane resurrection
- Thread starter GLJ
- Start date
A chap with a moustache like that...just has to be a good guy.
Stick at it Greg - you’ll get there.
Pete
Greg, my experience was with a TR6 but your story is very familiar. Leaky pushrod tubes was an issue Triumph never really found a perfect solution. On the 650 twins they changed the setup several times. I had a service note for Triumph dealerships which recommended that if you had a '68 or '69 model, you should retro-fit the '70 seals. Or summat like that. On mine, the 'wedding band' was a plain metal ring fitted outside the base of the PRT to contain the rubber O-ring from squishing out too far. I ended up with a selection of black and red rubber O-rings, square nylon O-rings, the wedding band, and PRTs from two different model years. Some PO had fitted tubes from the wrong model year and it took a lot of head scratching to work that out. They were slightly shorter than the correct items, presumably to accommodate a different setup of O-rings and seals. Ended up test fitting the head a couple of times to find a selection that gave, from imperfect memory, 40-thou of gap which was taken up by squishing the rubber components.
Pushrod tube seals? Not Triumph's finest hour.
Fitting the rocker boxes - try making a bent wire jig to hold the push rods themselves in place as you lower.
As Pete says, persevere. Gonna be a lovely and unique motorbike.
Some RD 350/400 folks have their cylinders Nikasil coated when they arrive at the last oversize. That is Nikasil coating on the stock cast in steel/iron sleeve. Milennium Technologies is one company that do this.
From my experience with Ducati, Nikasil is superb. 100 000 km on a set of cylinders is no prob. It would be great if MikesXS/ Heiden sold Nikasil plated 750/880 cc cylinder kits!
irishlord99
Sometimes wrong, Seldom in doubt.
Robert Pirsig had a great section in his book "Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance" where he philosophizes about working on bikes and getting "stuck" on a problem.
“If your mind is truly, profoundly stuck, then you may be much better off than when it was loaded with ideas.
The solution to the problem often at first seems unimportant or undesirable, but the state of stuckness allows it, in time, to assumes its true importance. It seemed small because our previous rigid evaluation which led to the stuckness made it small.
But now consider the fact that no matter how hard you try to hang on to it, this stuckness is bound to disappear. Your mind will naturally and freely move toward a solution. Unless you are a real master at staying stuck you can't prevent this. The fear of stuckness is needless because the longer you stay stuck the more you see the Quality-reality that gets you unstuck every time. What's really been getting you stuck is the running from the stuckness through the cares of your train of knowledge looking for a solution that is out in front of the train.
Stuckness shouldn't be avoided. It's the psychic predecessor of all real understanding.”
The solution to the problem often at first seems unimportant or undesirable, but the state of stuckness allows it, in time, to assumes its true importance. It seemed small because our previous rigid evaluation which led to the stuckness made it small.
But now consider the fact that no matter how hard you try to hang on to it, this stuckness is bound to disappear. Your mind will naturally and freely move toward a solution. Unless you are a real master at staying stuck you can't prevent this. The fear of stuckness is needless because the longer you stay stuck the more you see the Quality-reality that gets you unstuck every time. What's really been getting you stuck is the running from the stuckness through the cares of your train of knowledge looking for a solution that is out in front of the train.
Stuckness shouldn't be avoided. It's the psychic predecessor of all real understanding.”
I too encountered the dreaded Pushrod Tube/O-ring miasma with 650/750 twins in the seventies. I think HD did it better with spring loaded telescoping tubes. just an opinion.
While I'm thinking about it check the condition of the steering trees. They're cast aluminum and special on this bike as they're offset to add height to help prevent the pipes from touching down so easily in right handers. The guy who's bike I used to tune each year back then liked to wheelie it. One visit i noticed a crack in one of the trees, I had to have it weld repaired and blend it in.
While I'm thinking about it check the condition of the steering trees. They're cast aluminum and special on this bike as they're offset to add height to help prevent the pipes from touching down so easily in right handers. The guy who's bike I used to tune each year back then liked to wheelie it. One visit i noticed a crack in one of the trees, I had to have it weld repaired and blend it in.
I've heard about that problem. I looked them over real good while cleaning them up.
Thanks
Spent some time this morning researching my valve problem. Basically found out what I learned yesterday. There's long valves and short valves. Decided I needed to ask a expert. Only guy I could think of is a guy that had a independent bike shop back in the 70s and 80s. He was in a small town not to far from where I lived. He specialized in British bikes. I stopped at his shop a few times on my Hurricane back then. Last summer I heard he was not just still alive but had a bike shop in central IL. He's pushing 80 but still loves to work on bikes. Googled the name for his shop that he went by in the 80s. Google is your friend. His new shop same name as his old one. Called him up.
Asked him if he had time to discuss a valve problem with a triple. He said sure ask away. Explained my problem and what I had found. He was honest and told me he has rebuilt quite a few triples but had never noticed a difference in the valves. Now he was intrigued. Told me he would call a guy he gets parts from, if anybody would know he would. 10 minuets later called me back. Said he didn't talk to who he wanted, got a guy that works for him. He said as soon as he explained my problem he was told it's not a unusual problem. That for the 73 engines there was a change in the valve and adjuster length. Since my engine was made in 72 it could have either the long or short valves. The fix was to use the long mushroom adjuster. I mentioned I had seen the mushroom adjuster the day before on E-Bay. He asked how much. When I told him he said buy them. It's what he would do. Good enough for me. We talked a little more, I thanked him and hung up. Went to E-Bay and ordered the adjusters.
A little more to the story. Yesterday I sent the vendor I got the valves from asking for help. After getting off the phone I checked my e-mail. There was a response from the vendor.
Good vendor. The adjusters he suggested are the ones I ordered.
Time, money and patience. I will get this motor together.
Asked him if he had time to discuss a valve problem with a triple. He said sure ask away. Explained my problem and what I had found. He was honest and told me he has rebuilt quite a few triples but had never noticed a difference in the valves. Now he was intrigued. Told me he would call a guy he gets parts from, if anybody would know he would. 10 minuets later called me back. Said he didn't talk to who he wanted, got a guy that works for him. He said as soon as he explained my problem he was told it's not a unusual problem. That for the 73 engines there was a change in the valve and adjuster length. Since my engine was made in 72 it could have either the long or short valves. The fix was to use the long mushroom adjuster. I mentioned I had seen the mushroom adjuster the day before on E-Bay. He asked how much. When I told him he said buy them. It's what he would do. Good enough for me. We talked a little more, I thanked him and hung up. Went to E-Bay and ordered the adjusters.
A little more to the story. Yesterday I sent the vendor I got the valves from asking for help. After getting off the phone I checked my e-mail. There was a response from the vendor.
Good vendor. The adjusters he suggested are the ones I ordered.
Time, money and patience. I will get this motor together.
Excellent - and yes, Google is our friend.
....usually...
....usually...
That is excellent news Greg! Man, who’s gonna know all the secret details to these bikes once the old pros are gone? Good on you for resurrecting this rare old bike!
I go back through Persig's book regularly. Lots of little jewels in there.
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
irishlord99
Sometimes wrong, Seldom in doubt.
He retired a stones throw from where I live. I never got a chance to meet him, but he was good friends with my buddy Steve. Steve actually rebuilt the bike for Pirsig a year or so before Pirsig passed: so I did get to spend a little time with the bike when it was in Steve's shop.
I do read though that book about every two years or so... Jims right, every time I read it I find a new jewel.
I do read though that book about every two years or so... Jims right, every time I read it I find a new jewel.
Although many millions of folks have read the book, Pirsig did answer some of the letters written to him.
I sent him my handwritten letter in the 90's regarding my thoughts on having read it over and over since age 18.
No reply, but I think he at least read it.
.
“You look at where you're going and where you are and it never makes sense, but then you look back at where you've been and a pattern seems to emerge.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
.
.
.
.
I sent him my handwritten letter in the 90's regarding my thoughts on having read it over and over since age 18.
No reply, but I think he at least read it.
.
“You look at where you're going and where you are and it never makes sense, but then you look back at where you've been and a pattern seems to emerge.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
.
.
.
.
Update:
Some progress. Top end is back together. Good thing I'm not in a hurry. The longer adjusters I ordered got lost. They made it all the way onto the USPS delivery vehicle that comes to my house. Their website showed it was scanned onto the truck. No delivery scan. After several trips to the Post Office with no luck locating it I contacted the E-Bay seller. After a few back and forths with him he finally said he didn't know what to do.
WTF. I contacted E-Bay, explained the problem and within 2 hours they got back to me and said my money would be refunded. Well now I got my money back but no adjusters. Remembered another seller that had them. His were a little more money but he says they are the best you can buy.
I've bought from him before. They showed up yesterday. Top end back together and head torqued. You haven't lived till you put rocker boxes on a triple. You would think it would be easy. It's not.
You got a rocker box, 2 pushrod tubes and 3 pushrods to get in the right places at the right time. Plus you need the cam in the right position for each box. It's all together and head torqued. Even has compression on each cylinder.
Now it's going to rest comfortably for the summer. It is riding season you know. Over the course of the summer I will order more parts. Ignition system, exhaust, maybe carbs plus a bunch of other stuff. Hopefully everything needed to finish it next winter. Did I ever mention this thing is a bit of a money pit.
Some progress. Top end is back together. Good thing I'm not in a hurry. The longer adjusters I ordered got lost. They made it all the way onto the USPS delivery vehicle that comes to my house. Their website showed it was scanned onto the truck. No delivery scan. After several trips to the Post Office with no luck locating it I contacted the E-Bay seller. After a few back and forths with him he finally said he didn't know what to do.
WTF. I contacted E-Bay, explained the problem and within 2 hours they got back to me and said my money would be refunded. Well now I got my money back but no adjusters. Remembered another seller that had them. His were a little more money but he says they are the best you can buy. I've bought from him before. They showed up yesterday. Top end back together and head torqued. You haven't lived till you put rocker boxes on a triple. You would think it would be easy. It's not. You got a rocker box, 2 pushrod tubes and 3 pushrods to get in the right places at the right time. Plus you need the cam in the right position for each box. It's all together and head torqued. Even has compression on each cylinder.
Now it's going to rest comfortably for the summer. It is riding season you know. Over the course of the summer I will order more parts. Ignition system, exhaust, maybe carbs plus a bunch of other stuff. Hopefully everything needed to finish it next winter. Did I ever mention this thing is a bit of a money pit.
Nice work Greg! I would’ve never guessed these old Triples were such a pain to work on. It may be a money pit, but unlike most of the old bikes I’ve thrown money at, yours will actually be worth it! Ha!
That motor sure is pretty!
That motor sure is pretty!
Keep in mind Don Hutchinson Cycle.
He is a Triumph expert of the highest caliber:
"Thousands of rare and OEM parts"
https://hutchinsoncycle.com/
He is Spydereggs on EBay.
Attachments
Blank, signed and taped to the seat. I'll take the bike to Mailman with the check. In 6 to 9 months it will be ready for you to pick up. Win, win and loose. Mailman wins, he gets another classic to restore at no cost to him. You win, you get a great bike back plus you get to follow along on his thread. I loose the gas money to make it happen.
Sounds like a plan. Plus it will leave you with more time for riding this summer. Too hot to ride where Mailman lives so he will have something to do.
