Morris magneto

[Mikeyoung1138]

All I wanted to know was if it worked on a xs1

 

[mickeysolis]

Morris makes a direct bolt on. Looking at it right now on lowbrow site. I'm considering. I'm hitting massive bumps using hugh's pma and pamco. When the pma works, the pamco burns out... when the pamco fires, i'm back to trouble shooting the pma -- it's making me f*cking dizzy over here. At least with a magneto, presumably, I can separate the ignition from the charging system and make it home if/when hugh's pma faults again, fries another coil, or drains the battery.
My question is, if I'm running a hugh's pma, CAN I swap my current pamco for the morris magneto?? My bike was originally a CDI ('81) -- I used a pamco kit that included the advance rod, and this bike never had points -- can I even run a morris mag at this point, or will i need to source more cam parts, points, rod, etc.? I have zero experience with mags, I'm just getting sick tired of trouble shooting the weak links between hugh's pma and my pamco system.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi mickey,
this site? http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/yxs-for-yamaha-xs650.html
Looks to me like their $978.95 package contains everything you need to send your bike's ignition back to the 1930s.
And with a magneto you don't need a charging system at all. Just charge the battery at home when the lights get dim.
SOP on my 1937 Velocette.
And if you think HHB's PMA or Yamaha's stock alternator ain't reliable, living with a Miller dynamo will surely change your opinion.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Morris makes a direct bolt on. Looking at it right now on lowbrow site. I'm considering. I'm hitting massive bumps using hugh's pma and pamco. When the pma works, the pamco burns out... when the pamco fires, i'm back to trouble shooting the pma -- it's making me f*cking dizzy over here. At least with a magneto, presumably, I can separate the ignition from the charging system and make it home if/when hugh's pma faults again, fries another coil, or drains the battery.
My question is, if I'm running a hugh's pma, CAN I swap my current pamco for the morris magneto?? My bike was originally a CDI ('81) -- I used a pamco kit that included the advance rod, and this bike never had points -- can I even run a morris mag at this point, or will i need to source more cam parts, points, rod, etc.? I have zero experience with mags, I'm just getting sick tired of trouble shooting the weak links between hugh's pma and my pamco system.

Slow down man and think about this carefully. You don't want a magneto.
Get rid of the PMA.......................that is the real problem for you. They have voltage swings that do bad things to your other electrical components, as you have found out. Go back to the best charging system that exists for your bike, and that is the stock alternator. The Pamco ignition is the best ignition for our bikes, and it works flawlessly with the stock alternator and an automotive regulator.

 

[mickeysolis]

Slow down man and think about this carefully. You don't want a magneto.
Get rid of the PMA.......................that is the real problem for you. They have voltage swings that do bad things to your other electrical components, as you have found out. Go back to the best charging system that exists for your bike, and that is the stock alternator. The Pamco ignition is the best ignition for our bikes, and it works flawlessly with the stock alternator and an automotive regulator.

Noted. However, I'm a crazy person and still curious about the magnetos, and their viability in my particular situation (pma, pamco-swapped '81 CDI model xs).
Tell my *why* I don't want a magneto.
Just curious.
...and i guess not completely resonating with this idea that the stock alternator is the answer to all my problems -- it pretty much started them, after all.

 

[fredintoon]

Noted. However, I'm a crazy person and still curious about the magnetos, and their viability in my particular situation (pma, pamco-swapped '81 CDI model xs).
Tell my *why* I don't want a magneto.
Just curious.
...and i guess not completely resonating with this idea that the stock alternator is the answer to all my problems -- it pretty much started them, after all.

Hi mickey,
it's not that you don't WANT a magneto because yes you do, or so you said, eh?
It's that the folks replying to your posts reckon you don't NEED one to make your bike run good.
Yes you could install a magneto and in theory not need an alternator at all but wasn't the stock
systems that started your problems, it was because instead of diagnosing and fixing their problems
you swapped them out for a PMA and a Pamco and didn't get that job done quite right.
Note that you are dealing with TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS.
The alternator's job (be it stock or PMA) is to keep the battery charged.
The ignition's job (be it points & coils or Pamco or TCI) is to keep the engine running.

 

[mickeysolis]

Hi mickey,
it's not that you don't WANT a magneto because yes you do, or so you said, eh?
It's that the folks replying to your posts reckon you don't NEED one to make your bike run good.
Yes you could install a magneto and in theory not need an alternator at all but wasn't the stock
systems that started your problems, it was because instead of diagnosing and fixing their problems
you swapped them out for a PMA and a Pamco and didn't get that job done quite right.
Note that you are dealing with TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS.
The alternator's job (be it stock or PMA) is to keep the battery charged.
The ignition's job (be it points & coils or Pamco or TCI) is to keep the engine running.

Thank for the thoughts, Fred. I totally get that we're talking about two different systems, and I'm entirely aware of what charging systems and ignitions are for.
I didn't say I didn't want a magneto, a certain retired gentleman did. I asked him to clarify why (or insinuated he had not justified his statement, which is really just his opinion.)
My desire for a mag is contingent upon whether or not I can run one with my current set up, which is, again, an '81 CDI to a Pamco + advance... and I'm still waiting for any kind of actual insight.
But whatever. I appreciate you guys all the same.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi mickey,
it's the nitpicking grammarian in me that's saying that you saying you WANT a magneto and that RG saying you don't NEED one are both true statements.
But from what I can see from the Morris Magneto site is that their XS650 magneto kit has all the hardware needed to bolt it straight onto your bike once you remove whatever's already there.

 

[mickeysolis]

Hi mickey,
it's the nitpicking grammarian in me that's saying that you saying you WANT a magneto and that RG saying you don't NEED one are both true statements.
But from what I can see from the Morris Magneto site is that their XS650 magneto kit has all the hardware needed to bolt it straight onto your bike once you remove whatever's already there.

Ok, cool. But what I said was that I was considering. (If we are going to nitpick)

I think our retired gent is just offended that I would dare consider keeping that "dreaded Hugh's PMA" before the great and venerable Pamco ignition (And, in general, put-off by any human who would stoop to do something that he himself would not.)

When it comes to "why" I would do that, I actually think the writing is on the wall — a Morris Magneto is fire. I wouldn't *need* the damn Pamco. No matter how great they are, they're dependent on the charging system. With a mag I'd just need something to power my head and tail lights. Period. I don't run gauges or blinkers. So, if the alternator takes another shit, big deal.

If my bottom line is I want the bike to start and run as simply and most reliably as possible, starting from where I am at this point, then it goes without saying that a self-generating ignition, non-dependent on the charging system which exponentially increases the possible reasons for current *and* future non-starts (as has been noted/implied by everyone here and experienced by me personally) then a magneto sells itself, theoretically anyway.
All the PMA has to do is charge reliably enough to keep my lights on. Why the hell would I go to the extent of re-installing a stock Yamaha charging system just for that? Even if the PMA is, as the traditionalists in the forum love to preach, a "piece of crap" "rip off" "scam" "piece of junk" etc., it wouldn't matter to the ignition system with a mag. I'm not the first person in this thread to clarify that. If Hugh's system faults (invariably all systems do, by the way) I tape a flashlight to my apes to get me home. Wouldn't be the first time - and note that was *before* I had a PMA...

I suggest we all just take a minute to make real for our ourselves the phenomenon that some people, a major population in fact, have zero/none/nada/not a bit/reduced-to-the-point-of-non-existent desire to tend to their stock charging systems and will never ever go back to them on some 650s, regardless how belittling the old-timers in this forum are, because they've been around the block a few times themselves and decided to take a new road — bumpy, dirty, and glorious — because, believe it or not, some dudes just don't want to dedicate their motorcycle time to becoming stock Yamaha know-it-alls. You can call that foolish if you want, but others call that trailblazing... that's between you and your own soul. Sooner or later... we all have to turn the wrench again, and that's the great equalizer here, boys.

(side-note: hugh's pma only had a complete failure when i first installed it ,and that was due to a bad rec/reg. Hugh replaced it pronto. Since then I can only say reliability is questionable. And after several hours of inspecting, rewiring, checking grounds, stator replacement, and reg/rec upgrading, I can state that hugh's system is now only charging weakly, 13.4 max, and undependable at idle. Not awesome, but it would keep my lights on while I continue to eradicate possible starting and firing fails. And when it comes to starting and firing, I mean come on, it's a f*cking Morris Magneto, dude.)

Now. Does anybody actually have any experience mounting a Morris to their formerly-CDI xs650, or have any thoughts on how the Morris might or might not be compatible with both of the xs650 ignition types? I don't see anything on either lowbrow's or Morris' site regarding including parts that accommodate for the lack of advance, rod, points, etc. just that "all parts included" without any acknowledgment that a difference in ignition types even exists in all the xs models....

 

[hmusket]

For the amount of money you would spend on the magneto, you might want to look at other alternatives, specifically the Powerdynamo, out of Germany l think, and one from a company called Electrex World, out of the UK.
Both systems are combination alternator and ignition, crankshaft mounted, not camshaft. No points, use electronic advance curve. If l remember correctly forum member hooser sells the Powerdynamo, and would be able to answer questions about that system.

 

[gggGary]

Morris mag, go for it! YOU can be the one to post up the info, so it's easy for the arm chair adventure wankers.
ie Please document the journey for us stupid old guys,
3 Ozarks rallies 6 to 12 bikes each average 500 miles per rally. Virtually all 40 year old (mostly) stock charging systems with a smattering of pamco ignitions, ZERO failures. To be fair the group is mostly old guys that maintain their own bikes and might even be a bit OC on that subject. One bike arrived at one rally with a DOA charging system, while not repaired at the rally, later it was found to have a bad solid state regulator, replaced with a different used regulator it went on to outlive it's owner. RIP Jim Crowley.
Quote weekendrider " I took a non-runner never ridden before with a stolen tag and no insurance on a 300 mile virgin trip without legal or mechanical problems is pretty satisfying."
It WOULD be cool to see a mag install thread!
As a young'n I had the "privilege" of owning a gold star with mag ignition, and have even hand propped a 320 CI mag equipped airplane to the point of exhaustion before it started. Talk about "not trivial".

 

[MrBultaco]

Ok, cool. But what I said was that I was considering. (If we are going to nitpick)

I think our retired gent is just offended that I would dare consider keeping that "dreaded Hugh's PMA" before the great and venerable Pamco ignition (And, in general, put-off by any human who would stoop to do something that he himself would not.)

When it comes to "why" I would do that, I actually think the writing is on the wall — a Morris Magneto is fire. I wouldn't *need* the damn Pamco. No matter how great they are, they're dependent on the charging system. With a mag I'd just need something to power my head and tail lights. Period. I don't run gauges or blinkers. So, if the alternator takes another shit, big deal.

If my bottom line is I want the bike to start and run as simply and most reliably as possible, starting from where I am at this point, then it goes without saying that a self-generating ignition, non-dependent on the charging system which exponentially increases the possible reasons for current *and* future non-starts (as has been noted/implied by everyone here and experienced by me personally) then a magneto sells itself, theoretically anyway.
All the PMA has to do is charge reliably enough to keep my lights on. Why the hell would I go to the extent of re-installing a stock Yamaha charging system just for that? Even if the PMA is, as the traditionalists in the forum love to preach, a "piece of crap" "rip off" "scam" "piece of junk" etc., it wouldn't matter to the ignition system with a mag. I'm not the first person in this thread to clarify that. If Hugh's system faults (invariably all systems do, by the way) I tape a flashlight to my apes to get me home. Wouldn't be the first time - and note that was *before* I had a PMA...

I suggest we all just take a minute to make real for our ourselves the phenomenon that some people, a major population in fact, have zero/none/nada/not a bit/reduced-to-the-point-of-non-existent desire to tend to their stock charging systems and will never ever go back to them on some 650s, regardless how belittling the old-timers in this forum are, because they've been around the block a few times themselves and decided to take a new road — bumpy, dirty, and glorious — because, believe it or not, some dudes just don't want to dedicate their motorcycle time to becoming stock Yamaha know-it-alls. You can call that foolish if you want, but others call that trailblazing... that's between you and your own soul. Sooner or later... we all have to turn the wrench again, and that's the great equalizer here, boys.

(side-note: hugh's pma only had a complete failure when i first installed it ,and that was due to a bad rec/reg. Hugh replaced it pronto. Since then I can only say reliability is questionable. And after several hours of inspecting, rewiring, checking grounds, stator replacement, and reg/rec upgrading, I can state that hugh's system is now only charging weakly, 13.4 max, and undependable at idle. Not awesome, but it would keep my lights on while I continue to eradicate possible starting and firing fails. And when it comes to starting and firing, I mean come on, it's a f*cking Morris Magneto, dude.)

Now. Does anybody actually have any experience mounting a Morris to their formerly-CDI xs650, or have any thoughts on how the Morris might or might not be compatible with both of the xs650 ignition types? I don't see anything on either lowbrow's or Morris' site regarding including parts that accommodate for the lack of advance, rod, points, etc. just that "all parts included" without any acknowledgment that a difference in ignition types even exists in all the xs models....

See the cover bike on the 2017 Calendar...Halfmile has a magneto on his bike...don't know if it's a Morris or not, but he might have some insight for you.

 

[mickeysolis]

Morris mag, go for it! YOU can be the one to post up the info, so it's easy for the air chair adventure wankers.
ie Please document the journey for us stupid old guys,
3 Ozarks rallies 6 to 12 bikes each average 500 miles per rally. Virtually all 40 year old (mostly) stock charging systems with a smattering of pamco ignitions, ZERO failures. To be fair the group is mostly old guys that maintain their own bikes and might even be a bit OC on that subject. One bike arrived at one rally with a DOA charging system, while not repaired at the rally, later it was found to have a bad solid state regulator, replaced with a different used regulator it went on to outlive it's owner. RIP Jim Crowley.
Quote weekendrider " I took a non-runner never ridden before with a stolen tag and no insurance on a 300 mile virgin trip without legal or mechanical problems is pretty satisfying."
It WOULD be cool to see a mag install thread!
As a young'n I had the "privilege" of owning a gold star with mag ignition, and have even hand propped a 320 CI mag equipped airplane to the point of exhaustion before it started. Talk about "not trivial".

So you're saying put the mag where my mouth is, ay gggGary?
I like it.
Yous guys got my respect — that's why I'm here. And I'm not that young anyways.

This from Morris:
Mickey,
Yamaha made the cams the same on the 'advance' end, with threads and a locating pin hole, even though I think it was not used. The magneto 'nests' into the area where the points plate sat. It is the same diameter for the CDI plate to fit. Our original design was for ends that worked with the stock shaft; We sold lots of magnetos for CDI models ('80 up?), so we or the customer had to dig up stock 'thru-cam' shafts... we made a better drive which includes the whole shaft section one piece, so that took care of that. You can see it on the 3rd picture in the online store.
Mine is a '76 (had points), so I had to rely on others for info on the later ones. There have been no issues installing I'm aware of, and we've sold enough XS's for use on "post-points" years, that I'm sure I would have if there was one.
Thanks,
MM Inc.

So. That thread may be on its way soon......

 

[mickeysolis]

The Morris Magneto is ordered!
The plan right now:
1. Wait anxiously for the mag to arrive
2. Continue searching my current PMA system for whatever parasite drain is sucking my voltage at idle and capping my charge at around 13.2 in higher revs (turns out not to be the stator Hugh sent me, so I'm still guessing) Maybe I'll get lucky and the drain will disappear with the old ignition system (maybe??)
3. Install the mag, test runs, and eventually ditch a battery and starter altogether and use a capacitor to power my lights from there on out.
4. Spend the rest of my days in a gloriously low-maintenance, bare bones, dependable, and sexy XS riding situation... (should the chopper gods provide)

 

[mickeysolis]

See the cover bike on the 2017 Calendar...Halfmile has a magneto on his bike...don't know if it's a Morris or not, but he might have some insight for you.

Where can i see this calendar?

 

[MrBultaco]

go to Home link and scroll down to the 2017 calendar pre-order...click on it Cover/front and back, Jan. covergirl.

 

[molochnik]

I put one on my '81. They got it to me about a week ahead of schedule and everything seems to exhibit very good craftsmanship.
Install was easy. They give you one page of instructions, and I recommend reading every word. There isn't much there, but it is complete yet succinct.
At the same time I also installed a 34mm VM kit from 650 Central. Bike fired on the third kick.
Amazingly, it's raining here in SoCal so I haven't ridden it on the road yet.
I ended up with an extra YTX14 battery so I intend to make a mount for it and just run head and taillights off of it. Ah rating should be fine for the typical duration of a ride.
I'll just charge it back up upon return home as mentioned in a past post.
Costly, yes. But it really lightens the bike up and you won't have to worry about EMP attacks. Right now my bike is down to 285lbs but I still haven't installed a battery. The only thing left from the charging system is the rotor I left on for a crank weight.

 

[mickeysolis]

Been running the mag since last June -- unbelievably awesome. I meant to do an install thread but never got around to it, because suddenly I could start and ride my chopper all the time without a single headache... Imagine that.
Morris Mags are the secret to life - best thing I ever did for one of my motorcycles. Ever.