My starter worked when I broke it.

[Hardfahrer]

I'm building a rat bike out of an 82 xs650s. The electric starter doesn't work and I need someone to walk me through the tests to sort it out. Here's what I have so far. It worked before I took the bike apart a few months ago. I changed the front end to 00 R1 sport bike forks but kept the original controls. The kickstand switch is shorted as it was before the rebuild when the starter worked. The clutch handle switch is shorted for the time being as I try to figure out the problem. I shorted the solenoid with a screwdriver and the starter cranks fine. There is no voltage at the blue and white wire at the start button. I even ran a wire from the blue/white start button wire to the battery ground to no effect. Of course the bike was in neutral and ignition was on during all this. I'm assuming the safety relays went bad or for some reason are not being engaged to allow current to flow. Maybe I knocked a wire off somewhere. Fuses are good. Kickstarts and runs fine. Does anyone have a method of where I can put the voltmeter so I can test and find whats wrong. I've given up trying to read the wiring diagrams. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[retiredgentleman]

It may be your Safety Relay. The contacts of the SR are normally closed to allow power to the starter relay. You could try puting a jumper wire across the 2 red/white wires at the SR as a test. You could also try connecting battery positive directly to the red/white wire at the starter relay.

The starter push button gets its ground from the handlebars. If you have changed handlebars, maybe you have lost the handlebar ground.

 

[XSLeo]

If you can't read and understand a wiring diagram it won't be as easy to help you but I can try. If you look at wiring diagram such as the one on page 232 in the Clymers book.
Find the starter relay, or soleniod, in the lower right corner. The red/white wire is where the power comes into the relay. The blue wire goes to the stasrt button where when pushed the button grounds the blue white wire.
You say you jumped from the blue/white wire to battery negitive. You got nothing. This means you don't have power on the red/white wire.
Now if you trace the red/white wire from the relay, you will find it leads you to the starting circuit cut relay. This is a relay that has two red/white wires, a Sky blue wire and a yellow/black wire.
The sky blue wire goes to the neutral light. The y/b goes to the clutch switch.
Power flows in on the sky blue wire unless the bikes in neutral. This power flows out to the clutch switch and when you pull the lever the switch grounds the y/b wire. This stops the flow of power through the cut relay.
When no power flows through the cut relay the contacts are closed and power can flow from one r/w wire to the other. If you remove this relay and jumper the two red/white wires together it should get the stasrter button to work.
If not you need to trace the r/w wire farther to find where the power gets lost. At the cut relay one r/w wire comes from the starter relay, the other goes to the headlight/safety relay. You can use your meter to check for voltage on the wires.
At the safety relay there are two r/w wires, the one to the cut relay, another that goes to the engine stop switch.
Since your bike runs fine when kick started, you will have good power on the r/w wire at the safety relay.
Knocking a wire loose somewhere is a possibility. Check that out. My best guess is that the stsarter cut relay is the issue. I would try removeing it and jumpering the r/w wires. Just remember that the bike will now start anytime. In gear without pulling the clutch.
Leo

 

[Hardfahrer]

Thanks for the quick reply. There are two relays banked on the right side or the bike, can you tell me which is the safety and which is the start relay? Also, i read about the handlebar grounding the start switch. Is grounding the Blue/white wire of the start switch the right way to check for a bad handlebar ground? Thank you sir.

 

[Hardfahrer]

Scratch those last remarks. I posted before I saw XSLeo's post. Thank you for the info. this makes it easier to understand. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Hardfahrer]

Traced it to the cut relay. I drove the bike from Connecticut to Pennsylvania in the back of a pickup, uncovered, in a snow/sleet/rain storm back in February. Turns out water managed to get past the 30+ year old factory sealed relay. Luckily the rust was confined to the non critical parts of the relay. I was able to clean some rust flakes that were attached to the magnet, and clean it up in general to get it to work and nail down the problem. Will order another from mikes. Thanks for all your help and taking the time. Truly appreciate y'all sharing your knowledge.

 

[XSLeo]

I wouldn't replace that cut relay just bypass it. Hook the two red/white wires together, this is a rat bike not a restoration.
Leo

 

[Hardfahrer]

Good Point. I'll do that. One less thing to go wrong.

 

[5twins]

Just remember that with no starter safety relay, the starter will now engage any time you hit the button, even running down the road at 60MPH. Rat bike or not, I'm not sure you want that.

 

[Hardfahrer]

Another good point. I appreciate it.

 

[Craft518]

As stated the two R/W wires do need to be jumped together. This was a problem I overlooked as well at first. After everything is wired correctly and you still get not start check your grounding at the controls as the starter side control needs to be grounded. It's as easy as taking a wire from the mounting screw and touching it to the frame. After I figured that out it was smooth sailing. Good luck.

 

[Hardfahrer]

Hey Guys, Hope I have an easy one here. Drove the bike for about 40 miles, ran fine, shut it off and now wont start. No spark i'm sure. And normally the headlight turns on after I crank it but it's not turning on now. Rear light works when ignition key is turned on, I can hear the relay click when i turn the handlebar switch from off to run and the starter cranks. Fuses are good. Could you give me an idea of where to start? Thanks again.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Hey Guys, Hope I have an easy one here. Drove the bike for about 40 miles, ran fine, shut it off and now wont start. No spark i'm sure. And normally the headlight turns on after I crank it but it's not turning on now. Rear light works when ignition key is turned on, I can hear the relay click when i turn the handlebar switch from off to run and the starter cranks. Fuses are good. Could you give me an idea of where to start? Thanks again.

Sure sounds like your battery is weak and your alternator is not charging the battery. Brushes that are too short and failed alternator rotor are the usual suspects. There are hundreds of threads on this topic.

 

[Hardfahrer]

Brushes are new. Battery is strong, it cranks very well. There must be a relay that turns on the headlight circuit and ignition circuit when the motor begins to crank. And then leaves it on until you shut the key off. I suspect that relay or power to it is not working properly. Am I guessing correctly on this? If so, what relay is it and what turns it on? If I'm wrong, I don't have any more theories.I'm not sharp enough to find it in the wiring diagrams. Thanks again.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Brushes are new. Battery is strong, it cranks very well. There must be a relay that turns on the headlight circuit and ignition circuit when the motor begins to crank. And then leaves it on until you shut the key off. I suspect that relay or power to it is not working properly. Am I guessing correctly on this? If so, what relay is it and what turns it on? If I'm wrong, I don't have any more theories.I'm not sharp enough to find it in the wiring diagrams. Thanks again.

If your bike still has the side stand relay, that may be preventing the TCI from giving spark. On the left side of the bike, look for a relay with 4 wires.................. Red/white, blue/yellow, black/white and black. Try unplugging the relay, and see if the engine will fire up.

 

[Hardfahrer]

I have the side stand relay bypassed.

 

[Joesxs650bobjob]

I’ve got the same thing going on bike starts fine when kicked.... but when useing electric start the starter turns over good an strong but won’t fire battery’s at 12.7 any tips on where to start cheers!

 

[gggGary]

As test jumper a wire from the battery to the coil hot see if that "fixes" it. Then start looking for a poor wire, connection, switch.