Necessary output for a PMA stator?

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ChewsVolt

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I recently burnt up a cheap ebay stator from Cal-Tric in 4 rides (or less). They are graciously refunding my $$. I am shopping for a used OE stator, but want to keep it cool.
Hugh has a list of stators that physically fit onto the banshee mount, but wouldn't they have differing outputs?
Being that I am scared of "getting burned" I was considering going with a lower output stator to not dump all the excess electricity in the form of heat. Below's his compatible list. Why isn't the Banshee on there? Does a 250 quad really have the same output as an 800cc Cruiser? I am also looking for advice on a good reg/rec. Thanks!
Honda CBR600 F1 86-90
Honda VF500 84-85
Kawasaki VN800 Vulcan 00-05
Kawasaki VN800 Classic 01-06
Kawasaki VN800 Drifter 01-05
Kawasaki ZL600 86-87
Kawasaki ZX600, ZX-6 Ninja, ZZR600 85-04 [!!NOT ZX6-R, ZX6-RR 98+!!]
Suzuki VS800 92-07
Suzuki VX800 90-93
Suzuki VZ800 97-04
Suzuki LT250 91-96
Suzuki LT4WD 91-96
Suzuki LT-F4WD 91-98
Yamaha XV250 Route66 88-90
Yamaha XT600 90-95

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I did not know the vz800 was compatible with that stator, I have a marauder, (vz800), and have no issues with any electrical. If you think a banshee rotor would work best, than do that.
 
as far as I know stock xs650 charging produces something like 130W, sure I read that somewhere on here along with a heated debate over pma kits with 200W systems being too much.

What is your electrical system like? battery/batteryless? lights? simplified wiring? I'm not an expert but I don't think running led lights and no battery/small battery really helps matters when you run a 200W pma.
I'm curious to know how much energy capacitors store and their charge - discharge rate for how their load on the charging system compares with a battery.

I have a 350 LC set-up to go on mine if I ever actually get that far... it should suffice.
 
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Sorry, didn't include all info. The plan is to run kick only, Sparx capacitor and traditional bulbs. No display cluster lights, for the moment.
TLCbobber- I think I will start sub-contracting my eBay searches out to you, I didn't even know anything cheap still existed on ebay. Is that 350 LC swap a known fit? I was reading an elecrtonics book that stated service manuals will state charging capacities in them, didn't find any in my FSM, which is surprisingly sparse. More research is needed.
TwoMany- I am still trying to catch up with your level of understanding :) In terms of storage, I THINK that a comparison to an AA battery is less important in my situation because I would be running kick only. I would be relying on the reg/rec to modulate the power output and the capacitor to only very briefly stabilize the charge. But really IDK :) It's a cheap experiment, that hopefully stops lighting on fire and doesn't leave me too far from home.

It looks like stock wattage ranges from 160-220W. I found this post from pamcopete
pamcopete said:
These are best case numbers that do not include turn signals or brake light and 11 amps from the alternator @2,000 RPM.

Headlight, low beam = 40 W
Tail Light = 8 W
Ins. Lights 3 X 3.4 W = 10 W

Total lights = 58 W/14.5 V = 4 Amps
Ign. Coils (points) 14.5 / 4.5 = 3.2 * 50% = 1.6 Amps
Regulator 14.5/5 = 2.9 Amps (current decreases as the rotor heats up)
Reserve to charge battery 2 Amps

Total Amps = 10.5 Amps

Net available Amps @ 2,000 RPM = 11 - 10.5 = 0.5 Amps (7.25 Watts)
Net Available Amps @ 5,000 RPM = 16 - 10.5 = 5.5 Amps (79 Watts)

Notes:
1. Brake light 27 W / 14.5 = 1.8 Amps
2. Above assumes a factory new charging system with battery < 1 yr. old.
3. Replace brake light with an LED for city riding (.1 Amp vs 1.8 Amp)
4. Suggest installing a neutral switch relay to turn off the headlight when stopped at a light.
5. Regulator current will be less as the rotor heats up. Actual resistance of rotor and brushes is higher than nominal 5 Ohms, which reduces the current consumption, but also lessens the available current. It's likely that the net available current @ 2,000 RPM could be negative.
6. Application of brake light and / or turn signals will result in a negative net available current at or below 2,000 RPM.
7. Switch contacts are available to turn off the instrument lights with the headlight switch to save 10 W during daylight. (10 W = .6 A)
8. Once the battery has regained its full charge, the reserve 2 Amps is available for other loads, such as the High beam headlight.

Conclusion: Adequate power available for heated clothing at speeds above 2,000 RPM. Less than adequate power available at low speeds or when stopped.
Click to expand...
 
as far as I know the 350 LC/ypvs was the first swap to be used likely before banshee. haven't had mine running but it's been fitted.

Mine's a 29L like the one I linked (wish I got mine for that price lol)... crank taper is right, everything fits in the case, just need the adapter and trim the Y plate.
I made my adapter but the ones you buy are identical. Only the woodruff key is wrong but you don't really need it per sé, its main purpose is indexing the ignition side of the rotor to the crank. The taper itself should ensure a tight fit once the nut is wound up tight.
oh here's where I found info and my plate plans
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/xs650-permanent-magnet-alternator/

No I've been trying to find definitive answers about the 350 output, can't find what I read before about it, maybe it was 160W idk. was some post on another forum I found.
 
On the stock alternator with 16 amps output at 14.1 volts is 225 watts, at 14.5 volts it's 232 watts.
On the Banshee and similar vehicles, they were off road vehicles. As such they didn't need much output. They only ran the ignition and maybe a few lights.
I also think they were a single phase, not three phase.
As I recall some of the racing type alternator/ ignitions were only 130 watts, just enough to run the ignition.
Leo
 
XSLeo said:
...As I recall some of the racing type alternator/ ignitions were only 130 watts, just enough to run the ignition...
Click to expand...

Kinda like the early XS1 alternator.

1970XS1-Charging.jpg
 
As Leo states.....16amps........its all about the amps. That's unless you're running some silly Goldwing lights or Baha lighting set up.
Test your bike for AMP draw. after it's running unhook neg cable and put your amp meter in series to check draw. DON'T try staring your bike with the starter motor with your meter hooked in series. BOOM then you'll need to check ebay for a used fluke.
Check your draw, lights brake light, ignition load etc and then measure your stator. Is it excessive? Prolly not.

Only note is be careful of ATV stators. Good quality but some models have a high output knowing most end users will install a winch/plow etc

For shits and giggles I tested my Powerdynamo yesterday after reading this and its 174 watts and 14.9 amps. Way more than needed. I don't have any brown burnt wires or problems. Tho, I've only put 100miles on it this year.
 
Oh I see, amperage is constant but we get the difference from the voltage change as revs increase. Got it.
I cannot test my current output, there is none! I could reinstall stock I suppose, but Im too lazy.
Regarding the test for amp draw, are you testing ground on EACH circuit or just the main ground back to the battery? To measure stator, are you measuring from positive on the regulator?

I have been looking at manuals for bikes from the suggested stator list and I am still only finding voltage numbers and not Amps/Watts. Don't know if I learned what I set out to, but I learned something!
 
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When or if my standard alternator craps out (and it might not), I'll fit a PMA, and when I do, I'll also fit a series reg-rec. Google for Shindengen SH-775 to read all the good stuff about them.
I've been running one in my GS for the past year, with no issues.
It might not be that Yamaha PMA-equipped engines ever suffered from the chronic stator and reg-rec problems that plagued the Suzuki GS line, but the hassle is still around even today on some modern designs, so it's worth avoiding entirely by using a series reg-rec.
It kind of surprised me to find modern Triumphs and Dukes were the victims of fried stators because of the crappy shunt design, and many of those owners are lining up to fit SH-775s.
 
oh yeah! That's what I got. II found one stock from a Yamaha R1, or RZ or something. Only $30, everyone else was asking $50-60 on eBay. I haven't installed yet though. Hopefully everything works well. I also got a used stator form a Suzuki Intruder. Had a nick in the insulation. After too much research I decided to seal it with JB weld! I usually avoid any "fixes" involving the stuff but it's high heat resistance, and it's actually an insulator. We will see this weekend

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If you got one from a breaker (and assuming he's honest), it might be what it claims to be.

For others reading this later:

Be sure what you buy - there's a lot of fake series ones on ebay and other places that sneakily list the Polaris part number and make out it's the same part. It's not - what they're selling is just a MOSFET shunt reg. Some of the bastards even put a fake model number on it.
A genuine Shindengen can be got from a Polaris dealer, or a breaker of ATVs.
I bought a couple of genuine used ones, but to avoid the hassle, my next one will be a brand new Polaris sourced one from a local dealer. Turns out the dealer nearest to me can supply one at very close to the price of a mail-ordered part anyway. Plus, I get a warranty.
 

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