Need help putting this puzzle together

[cswanson]

I'm working on a friends bike for him. Maybe I'm a sucker. . . That's to be determined. Anyway, the bike is an '81. It ran when he bought it, but then it started dying on him mid ride. I agree'd to look at it and found that the previous owner had done a number on the wiring harness and installed 2 hugh aftermarket coils. So I advised him to pick up a used harness in good condition and I picked out a coil for him from mikes and I installed. Under closer examination I found that previous owner had also installed a PMA in the bike. And after reading a little about it I am thoroughly confused. So, I took a load of pictures, and maybe you all can help me fit the puzzle pieces together.

Here is the PMA:
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/chris_swanson1/PMA_zps20400737.jpg

Here is the points:

Here is the coil I had him buy 2 wire-Black and blue:

Here's a plug on the opposite side that has me really confused R/W and orange:

Here are the coils the previous owner had on the bike:

Here's the PMA rectifier:

Here's the old rectifier, still plugged in-also is throwing me:

Here is the PMA hook-up to the battery: (I found a wiring diagram on here and it looks like the PMA is hooked up correctly)

Here are 2 random plugs just hanging out, I think they may have hooked into the old alt. unit (but what do I do with them now?):

Here is where the condenser and the point wires come together to hook into the coil. (Not sure what wire needs to go where.)

I read that the PMA requires an upgraded ignition, and maybe that's why the previous owner had the other coils on there. So maybe those need to go back on? I realize I'm no expert, but my mechanical aptitude far exceeds that of the guy I'm doing the work for and if I had him take it to a shop they would charge him more than the bike is worth for the labor. Any experts?

 

[Purplezinger]

Others are going to jump in here, but I'll start. You have mixed apples with oranges. By this I mean there are 2 different ignitions. The original xs650's from day one, through 1980 have 2 sets of points, 2 condensers and 2 coils. Around 1980 Yamaha changed to the TCI (Transistor Controlled Ignition) system. This system has one coil (dual output), no points, no condensers and is triggered by a small magnet imbedded in the rotor of the alternator. These systems, their wiring and parts do not interchange. I.E. you cannot put a dual output coil on a system that has points. Also, you refer to a PMA P.M.A. is short for Permanent Magnet Alternator. XS650's do not have PMA's from the factory. From the factory XS650's have a field excited alternator. There are aftermarket PMA's for XS650's. It gets more complicated. IF the bike started life with a TCI ignition AND someone changed out the field excited alternator for a real PMA, the magnetic trigger for the TCI is now GONE. You have lots of sorting out to do. Others here will jump in, but you need to read everything one this board about ignitions.

 

[nj1639]

Yep....I was wondering if the numbers match from frame to motor. That's a frankenstein.

 

[nj1639]

What's under the round Yamaha cover on the left side....you're saying pma......any pics there?

 

[cswanson]

I'm not sure why the first pic didn't post. Yes, by PMA I am referring to the aftermarket Hugh's Handbuilt PMA.

 

[cswanson]

I did not take off the opposite cover to check for points on the other side. But with a TCI, your saying I shouldn't even have points? SO, best case scenario, the previous owner swapped out motors to a pre-TCI but is only running 1 set of points?

 

[cswanson]

Wow. This is totally screwed!

 

[deadchef]

they probably didn't swap motors but dumped the tci for points when they installed the pma.

you've got a mess there and doesn't look like a good time at all. personally i would replace the points ignition with a pamco system. you could probably cobble together what you have left of a wiring harness and make it all work. however, make sure you bring a volt meter and take a look at the wiring diagrams in the tech section.

keep us updated and good luck!

 

[smokedyerstang]

I agree with upgrading to the pamco if he can afford it. Then just make a new harness yourself. There's not much to it with a pamco and pma.

 

[Purplezinger]

Ok, so it has Hugh's PMA. That's a good thing! That also means the magnetic trigger for the TCI is gone. If there is a TCI module still on the bike it will no longer work. No you cannot run/trigger a TCI coil with a single set of points! It won't work. Pamco is the way to go. Your photos show a dual point setup. TCI bikes can be reverse engineered to run the old dual point ignition but you really have to know how to do it and what's the point. Pamco is a much better system. TCI bikes use the same camshaft as the points bikes with this exception. Camshaft's in TCI bikes do not originally have internal bushings/bearings for the mechanical advance shaft. Your photos show the dual points, so it's possible this bike has had the bushings installed. You will need the mechanical advance mechanism if you install a Pamco.

 

[Purplezinger]

BTW, the TCI module was originally mounted under the battery box.

 

[Firerunner]

Your first pic doesn't work because you didn't put the brackets on either end of the link.

I second the motion to build your own wiring harness. Even if everything was wired correctly, which it isn't, you are dealing with 30 year old wires that have likely been exposed to the elements, and have been through an unknown number of heat cycles and mice. Building your own is worth the piece of mind. It's like plumbing; I'd always rather be building it new than dealing with someone else's old mess.

 

[cswanson]

Electrical aptitude is not my strong suit.

 

[smokedyerstang]

It's not hard at all to build a new harness. If you can read a wiring diagram you can do it.

 

[Purplezinger]

I don't mean to discourage you, but if you do this project, you will become intimately familiar with electricity.

 

[cswanson]

Yeah, I guess you learn by doing.

 

[nj1639]

There's a wiring thread started by inxs that has just about every conceivable diagram from stock to custom listed........check it out, you may have the parts and pieces to make that thing work AGAIN.........be carefull the 650 bug don't bite you.

 

[650Skull]

Agree with nj here. Take a step back from making a rash decision.

In the 8th pic there is a white tag just below the frame. This will have a serial no on it like 4v4 or such so that will give you the year the loom is from, Cross reference with the thread that has the wiring diagrams in, scroll down to my first post. It, (loom), looks to be in good nick.

You will have to check the PMA was installed to the timing properly. If it was me i would remove it and start from the beginning. Get to know what you have and don't remove anything before you really know how all the things are supposed to match, or are mismatched at present. Seems you have it all there to get it going.