Needle jets...stock BS34 vs Canadian needle jet

[5twins]

Yes, the new owners waxed eloquently when they took over about improving the products and expanding the selection. They have expanded the selection, but no doubt with many more junk parts, lol. And, much of their expanded selection is for other bikes like the XS400, SR500, and RD350. That's no help or improvement to a 650 owner.

Their very first move when taking over was an IMMEDIATE across the board price increase on all their products. Nice, huh. Now, I might be willing to accept that IF they improved and fixed the wrongs on the stuff they sell, but for the most part they didn't. They carry on just like Mike did, selling many inferior products, sometimes fixing and upgrading them, BUT not until they sell their current stock. Yes, there were a few exceptions. They had some bad rotors they had to pull. People may be willing to take a hit on a $10 part, but not $100 parts.

 

[Capt_Zoom]

I'll give them this, at least they are communicating with me. Which is a first. This is their newest response.

The only way we can try to see what the problem is will be to see the part you received, maybe a wrong part got sent? We will be glad to refund you the postage cost for the return, regardless, if it is the correct part you received then we will have to go back and work with our supplier to resolve. I am not disagreeing with you, our tech explained we sell thousands which we have, so we want to get this situation corrected and need the part back, so I have a credit in to be processed back to you for the part, and will also process a future credit for the shipping back when received, if a supplier issue then we will get with them to resolve.

I also want to be clear...I don't blame them for getting a bad batch. But its their response that will define their customer service and how long of a delay we experience.

If It were my biz I'd send an email to everyone who bought a set this year and say we may have gotten a bad batch and describe how to check them. Might help find which batch is bad as well.

Then I'd stick an employ in the warehouse and check every single one in a single evening so I could give customers an ETA on the parts. If they find some good one's then those go out immediately as replacements. I also wouldn't leave customers on the hook for shipping old one's back since they are junk.



This is honestly the first time I've had reasonable communication (time wise) with mikes so that give me some hope.

 

[650Skull]

Here is the proof they are wrong.

Bought these of Mikes before he sold the bussines for my 34's but didn't know the Oceania models already had the Canadian type Jet, 336-YO,
Part #48-0662

Lousy pics will try for some better.

 

[5twins]

Now those look correct, hole at 90° to the slot. I'll bet the ones I installed a couple years back were correct as well. Looks like a bad batch from the supplier this time around. Zoom, you may need to explain more fully to them exactly what the problem is, how the hole in the side is located incorrectly so fuel won't flow to the pilots, off by 90°. They don't seem to be understanding what's wrong with them.

 

[650Skull]

Use my pics if you like

 

[Jaydela180]

zoom, here is my correspondence with mikes thus far.

me:
Part number 48-0663 was manufactured wrong. A critical hole in needle jet was drilled in wrong spot, rendering it useless. I need to exchange 2 needle jets for a pair that is correctly made. Please email back asap with your course of action.

mikes:
I need more information, we have sold over 200 of these this year and this is the 1st complaint, are both needles bad because I assume all we have in stock are the same and are working for everyone else.

me:
On the bottom end of needle jet ( threaded/ main jet side), a fuel passage for the pilot is drilled in wrong spot. The hole is supposed to be drilled at 90 counterclowise from locating notch, but it is drilled at 180 degree. This jet blocks fuel to pilot circuit. Please respond asap with course of action. I do not want to have to modify a part that should have been made correctly in first place.

mikes:
I am having a technician review your concern tonight, and will be in touch with a response.

 

[deadchef]

this thread had me wondering so went out to check. i bought mine last year from someone on here. they look like real mikuni. here are my crappy cell phone pics....

 

[Jaydela180]

im sure youre not the only one tearing open their 34s with canadian needles. anyone who got them in past year probably should.

 

[wherearewe]

Hmmm I got a set about 4 months back. Looks like ill be pulling the carbs to take a look!

 

[5twins]

Wherearewe, is your bike running OK with those needle jets in there? Because I'm thinking a bike wouldn't even idle with these 180 jobs installed. I don't see how the pilot circuit would get fuel.

 

[wherearewe]

Wherearewe, is your bike running OK with those needle jets in there? Because I'm thinking a bike wouldn't even idle with these 180 jobs installed. I don't see how the pilot circuit would get fuel.

Well being the depth of winter here for me, and the fact that i pulled off the rear wheel to do bearings, brakes and tire, i've only run it a couple of times. It seems to be running all right though.

 

[Capt_Zoom]

Sudco doubted that a bike would even start with the incorrect hole orientation. If I had my bike running well i wouldn't necessarily tear into my carb to check them.

Mine had no maker mark on them. So they aren't official mikuni's.

Anyway, once mikesxs gives me their return authorization and address I'll be sending them back...maybe later today.

 

[5twins]

You know, it may be possible to "make" Canadian spec needle jets out of your stockers. If you compare the two, the only difference is a few extra air bleed holes on the sides of the Canadian jets. Both are YO metering size. The stocker has two rows of 3 and two rows of 4 air bleed holes down the side. The Canadian jet has two rows of 4 and two rows of 5.

 

[wherearewe]

Im just curious to be honest, and its not more than a 20 min job to have a look. I plan to see tomorrow. I remember i got needles and jets and the same time. I already had 'canadian' setup being from NZ, but i wanted to overhaul the whole lot. The needles were stamped Mikuni. I dont remember the needle jets though.

 

[650Skull]

Oceania set up. These were bought before Mike sold MikesXS.

The original needles are the same length as Mikes 5lX11 Part #48-0663, and the needles and needle jets in my previous pic, both have the mikuni trade mark on them. As per camera phone, blurry fu#$ed pic

The new needle is the same length as the old one but the taper on the old needle is steeper than the new one. Is it due to wear? i don't know, i assume the jet would wear before the needle.

5twins your claim that Mikes Canadian needles are shorter than the US BS34's, ( if i remember a past post correctly), is not consistent with the Oceania models

Because i bought these parts some time ago may have no relevance to what is being sold now.

 

[5twins]

The 5HX12 "fixed" (non-adjustable) needle we got here in the states measures 50mm from the clip to the tip. The Canadian needle I measured was 50mm from the top slot to the tip. They may be the same overall length but running the Canadian needle in the normal middle #3 slot would have it sitting 2mm higher in the slide and it would be 2mm shorter than the fixed U.S. version. When I said it was shorter, I was talking about the "working" portion, from the clip slots to the tip, not the overall length.

I don't measure needles by overall length because that can vary even between needles of the same number. Mikuni is very precise making the portion from the clip slots to the tip, not so much on the portion of needle above that. They don't have to be, it does no fuel metering. I've found needles of the same number varying in overall length by as much as a MM or 2. The clip slot to tip measurement doesn't vary.

 

[Jaydela180]

Checked mikesxs website and Canadian needle jet has been removed. So atleast no one else will be purchasing this jet until its made correctly. They even issued credit already. Hopefully zoom, you got same email.

Mikes:
I am sorry to inform you that this jet was shipped to you in error and we are attempting resolve with our suppler, at this point all we can do is refund this part and a credit will be forthcoming. I am sorry for the problem.

So, now its drilling time...
Gonna leave genuine mikuni stock needle jet alone., just in case I have to circle back if Canadian setup doesn't work out.

But my question is if I run Canadian needles with stock needle jets, what can I expect? I've always read they need to be run as a pair, but never read much of what happens if you don't. Thanks

 

[Capt_Zoom]

Mikes lastest response. Good news that they realize its a problem.

" I wanted to thank you for your help, we did bring in the technician and did verify the jet was incorrect, although it appears that our supplier might of sent the wrong jets in the right packaging and warehouse verifies quantities received and not experienced to examine parts as we have thousands. I am reaching out to the supplier to see how this could happen. As for the hundreds or thousands we sold, the supplier has given us these in the past so we think it is an isolated incident with recent shipment we are just starting to use. As for the Canadian returns, if you can send us the invoices from them with the parts you want to return we might be able to have you ship them back, but would have to see the invoices.

Thanks again Jim, I really appreciate this, I feel it is not a bad jet, just an incorrect part sent from supplier, but will try to resolve.

Regards
MikesXS"

 

[Capt_Zoom]

I'm happy that MikesXS is resolving this. I see this kind of thing happen a lot where a forum actually finds the problem before the retailer and manufacturer. I just hope there aren't too many out there who get nailed by this.

If anybody needs a set of canadian needles I have a set (no needle jets though)...PM me.

I ended up ordering a set of needles from 650central. Michaels are Mikuni's and come with two sets of pilot and main jets for tuning. Also includes a drill bit for opening up the bottom of the slide so it can move more freely (an issue on some bikes). Should provide more throttle response. His price is $60 IIRC.

 

[5twins]

Jay, even though the Canadian needle/needle jet combo is a richer set-up, I believe the Canadian needle jet is actually a bit leaner than the stocker because it has more air bleed holes down the sides. But, with the Canadian needle being so much richer than the U.S. fixed clip needle, you still end up with a richer combo overall. So, if you were to use the Canadian needle with the U.S. spec needle jet, you will probably end up with a really rich set-up. You can try it but don't be surprised if it is very, very rich.