Needle jets...stock BS34 vs Canadian needle jet

[Jaydela180]

Got it.

One last thing, then I'm done:

The comparable xsjohn needles that I know you are familiar with seem to always be refereed to as just needles. No mention of needle jets. Where they run on stock needle jets or have I somehow overlooked that they came with different needle jets?

 

[650Skull]

xsjohns needles were the BS34's and he altered one of them to be richer to help it to run a bit cooler.

xsjohn believed one side ran hotter than the other, hence the richer needle. There was no altered or different needle jet

 

[Jaydela180]

But it was a richer adjustable needle in a stock needle jet, right?

 

[Capt_Zoom]

Here's the update I received from MikesXS today.

, the part you sent, is consistent with the parts were are selling, so we took them off the site, and mailed the part with a correct version to the supplier overseas to verify did they product wrong, ship wrong or what on the last order, they should be getting the air mail any day now.

 

[Jaydela180]

Mikesxs issued me a refund little over a week ago.

Since I didn't send needle jets back, I decided to drill them out. I didn't quite hit my mark at first, so hole in jet is much larger than in carb body.

Set clip at second position, lowered pilot to 45 and main to 140 and... Bike runs great.

For anyone that has been bs34 tuning all summer ( like me) with not much success, give these needles a go. I know many people have successfully tuned these carbs by just pilot and main jet changes but I did not.
It wasn't until I could fatten the middle and bleed outwards that I could say the im happy with performance.

 

[aldo5468]

But it was a richer adjustable needle in a stock needle jet, right?

See attached instructions for XSJohn's BS34 needles - he recommended 135 mains for near-stock filters and exhausts.

 

[Jaydela180]

I've always read that Canadian needle and jet must be paired together. Don't mix and match.

But then I read about xsjohn needles and there's no mention of changing needle jet.

They seem to be a similar needle to the Canadian versions ( richer taper, adjustable clip positions) but why doesnt johns needles need to be matched with 336 yo needle jet?

 

[5twins]

I don't know what needle John was using. As I recall, they had no numbers on them. Maybe he ground them off so people wouldn't just buy that needle on their own, lol. My buddy has a set not installed as far as I know. I'll see if I can get a hold of them and do some comparing to the stock fixed clip version. I don't have any Canadian needles to compare to but if I post up the measurements maybe you guys can compare that to the ones you have.

Yes, John's set-up was an adjustable needle run in the original YO needle jet. I'm thinking that John's needle, when run in the middle #3 slot, was the same length as the stock 5HX12. The Canadian needle (5IX11) is 2mm shorter when run in this slot so that is probably why it requires the Canadian needle jet.

 

[Jaydela180]

Thank you twins.

 

[Capt_Zoom]

I haven't finished tuning it yet but the improved needles from 650 central made a dramatic difference in mine. I'm getting a tiny bit of stumble when I first start out (low RPM) but after that its fast up to 50mph with no issues (and its definitely faster and smoother than before with the stock setup). I've only taken it around the block a couple times since the install. Still have the mixture screw 3 turns out. i'm hoping I can dial it in with just the mixture screw but if I need to change the jets, so be it. The kit came with extra jets.

 

[scabber]

Just pulled the xsjohn needles out of my BS 34 carbs. They are shorter than the stock needles. About 2 mm. They have a straight taper. I saw a picture of the Canadian needles next to a stock needle very similar to the xsjohn in length.

 

[JCE]

Just a heads up that mikesxs is still selling these incorrect needle jets so beware. Just received a set yesterday and installed them, immediately I knew something wasn't right as the bike spit and backfired like never before. Pulled the jets to find just what was discovered here. Thanks for the the thread that helped confirm!

Now just waiting for a response from these guys so I can get them exchanged pdq...

 

[650Skull]

JCE, As a new member and not knowing of your experience with XS650's or anything about yourself, i have to ask the question's.

1; Did you just buy the so called Canadian/Non US needles adjustable on there own, and install them in your existing YO needle jets.????

2; Did you just buy the 366YO needle jets, (as per your post), and used your existing needles, (not stated they were bought), in the new 366YO Needle jets.????

3: Did you buy any other jets to mix and match with the different 366YO needle jets or needles????

4; Did you buy the kit that recommends enlarging the slide hole????

As an owner of an Oceania XS650 that has the So called Canadian/Non US Adjustable needles and 366YO needle jets as standard and comparing Mikes Needle with the ones in my carbs, i couldn't determine any difference. Also the pilot and Main jet are different on my Non US/Canadian Needles and needle Jets carb setup

No information about the bike setup........Pods.....Uni........or standard air-boxs.........or exhaust system or lack of...........

Some clarification would help.

 

[JCE]

JCE, As a new member and not knowing of your experience with XS650's or anything about yourself, i have to ask the question's.

1; Did you just buy the so called Canadian/Non US needles adjustable on there own, and install them in your existing YO needle jets.????

2; Did you just buy the 366YO needle jets, (as per your post), and used your existing needles, (not stated they were bought), in the new 366YO Needle jets.????

3: Did you buy any other jets to mix and match with the different 366YO needle jets or needles????

4; Did you buy the kit that recommends enlarging the slide hole????

As an owner of an Oceania XS650 that has the So called Canadian/Non US Adjustable needles and 366YO needle jets as standard and comparing Mikes Needle with the ones in my carbs, i couldn't determine any difference. Also the pilot and Main jet are different on my Non US/Canadian Needles and needle Jets carb setup

No information about the bike setup........Pods.....Uni........or standard air-boxs.........or exhaust system or lack of...........

Some clarification would help.

Hey I appreciate the detailed response and though my initial post pertains to the needle jets in particular I'd be happy to answer your questions.
I've got an '80 project bike that I've been working on for the last few months and have just recently started to work through the carbs. My current
'hip shoot' set up prior to the Canadian combo is the following:

Open/straight pipe (2 into 1)
Pods
Brass floats set to spec
45 pilot
Stock needle/needle jet
145 main
Idle screws at 3 out
Stock initial/adv timing

With the above setup at 200' above sea level I'm experiencing a lean condition from just off idle thru just over 1/8th opening. Approaching 1/4 throttle the motor smooths out and pulls hard to WOT. Going through several test I have confirmed that the needle circuit needs some help as the vacuum pressure isn't developing enough to engage the slide when required. One test is a low rpm roll-on from 1/16th throttle in 4th gear vs. a high rpm roll-on from 1/16th throttle in 3rd (or even 2nd) gear.

Without getting into too much detail, and having experimented with quite a few variables over the last couple weeks, I have decided to try out the Canadian needle jets & needles to enrichen this specific circuit. With the CAN needle set in the 3rd from top and backing down the main to a #140 I fully expected to be well within the ballpark of an 'acceptable' throttle curve but that wasn't the case.

After install of the new components, initial start up even with choke was pretty rough. Without the choke and no throttle the bike immediately died. Start up w/o choke but help with throttle caused all kinds of spitting and backfires which only means one thing when coming from my baseline.......WAY lean! In any case, I pulled the components and discovered the new CAN needle jets were improperly fabricated as some of you have already discovered.

I've since received a quick reply from mikesxs who apologized for the mix up and has sent out what I hope to be correctly fabricated parts. When correct parts are received and installed I'd be happy to report my final set up feedback.

 

[JCE]

Just received the replacement jets, they just sent me more of the same incorrectly fabricated jets. Lame.

EDIT:
Mikesxs finally sent me the correct needle jets but admitted that they had to sift through an entire 'lot' of a bad batch to find some correctly machined jets. I'm back in biz!