New is better?

[Iowa Mark]

The thread about new helmets got me to thinking about an issue I, at my ever increasing age, have been struggling with. The notion that anything new is automatically assumed better somehow. I had been away from bikes for a number of years when I found my current 650. Now that I'm up again on two wheels I start looking more closely at what else is out there that might meet my wants. Yamaha's "Bolt" comes to mind as a more modern version of the bobber I intentioned with the XS 650 parked in the barn. But, is it really better? I leave a perfectly good Toyota parked so that I can drive my VW bug to work sometimes. I pick up my torch instead of the TIG for minor repairs sometimes. I still subscribe to a couple of magazines instead of gathering information online. At work, just because the there is an 'over travel' alarm on the PLC doesn't always mean that that is the case. The point is the idea of New=Better gets in the way of any number of other factors that make one thing better than another. Or if not better, at least different. This idea has also been brought up recently with the discussion on safety rules. I, for one have been struggling with all the changes that a newer generation brings with them in the name of bettering our work place and the world we all live in. Back to the bike analogy, That Bolt comes with fuel injection, belt drive, more power, less vibration, and little daily maintainance. The sales literature sure presents it as better.........

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Good thoughts there, Mark. I believe new=better when it comes to batteries and a jug of milk. I also believe new=(counterfeit, cost-reduced, max-shortcuts) for many more things. This topic pops-up on machinists forums and electric guitar threads (vacuum tube amps).

In the computer world, new didn't always = better, but it DID mean that whatever you have is now obsolete.

Imagine if Microsoft produced the world's fuel supply.

Just released, GAS v2.0!

To be able to use version 2.0 GAS in your bike, perform the following steps:

1 - Jack up your gas cap.
2. Roll a new bike under it...

 

[retiredgentleman]

A interesting topic for sure! The "New is Better", in my opinion, comes from all of the marketing/advertising that we are bombarded with in our daily lives. We get fed it from all sides. Radio, TV, internet web sites, newspapers, magazines, cell phones, billboards, etc. etc. are in our face. In the grocery stores, the product makers love to put the word
"New" on a cereal box, laundry soap, or tooth paste, even though most of us know its the same old stuff inside. But of course, consumers are drawn into the web of half truths and outright lies.

Sometimes newer is better. My 2005 Camry is a much better car than the ones I had from the 1960/1970/1980/1990 times. Its quieter,more powerful,more luxurious,brakes better and steers better. Would I trade it in for a 2016 Camry, in order to have 6 air bags, dash boards that talk to me, GPS navigation and "new" styling.....................absolutely not. That would just be a foolish waste of money.

We may be forced to move on to the newer technology, even when we don't want to be. Until about 3 weeks ago, I was using a 10 year old computer and Windows XP operating system. Microsoft and Google and others, had been telling me for a long time that they would no longer update or support my archaic machine and OS. I caved into their badgering, and bought a new computer with Windows 10 OS. Does it work any better.............well slightly better maybe.

In my motorcycle, I try to find a balance between old and new. I like the overall style of the bike, but I replace some of the old stock parts, with newer more reliable, safer, and more efficient parts that won't leave me stranded when I'm 1000 kms from home.

Is the Bolt better than an XS650. Yes, it certainly is. Better, because you buy it and just drive it. Maintenance is almost nothing, just oil and filter changes. But there is still a place for old bikes, if you like to spend time wrenching and chasing electrical mysteries, and of course customizing.

 

[gggGary]

I think RG hits the point. To just get on and go you can't beat new from a reputable manufacturer. If you want to get involved and like to change things a bit, older has a lot of benefits. For motorcycles the current sweet spot is bikes having FI and ABS Both those are very useful features. Then you get to mission; a constantly changing set of conditions expectations and features that create the "best" bike for the days activity. I like my 650's but my eye (and butt) wander. I doubt I will ever find the "perfect" bike but I intend to keep looking (and trying)!

 

[weaselbeak]

The real problem for me is that "new" comes with a huge price tag, known as complication. Even that word may be off base. I mean you can't really work on the new stuff, so full of electronics and computers. I can troubleshoot and work on most of my stuff on the side of the road if I have to. My son and nephew have newer bikes that if there's a problem, it's trailer time, and maybe a mortgage to get it fixed. Increased downtime is one result. While of course they will mostly be better performing stuff, I can't find enough enhanced riding experience over my early 80's bikes to justify the risks. I'm not sold on the newer bikes being all that much more reliable, tho I'm sure they really are. My old carb'd GS Suzuki and Moto Guzzis fire right up and run as regular as atomic clocks. My XS only takes a couple of kicks hot or cold. The grins are still there. My buddy Dave has a new V-Max, he recently told me it has an unbelievable amount of computers on board. My son's BMW 1200 four banger is rediculous. These bikes are very fast. But I ride reasonably and defensively, so all the ABS and stuff do not come off to me as a big deal. You guys are riding XS bikes, and some are spending a lot of money customizing and restoring them that would go far into a new bike purchase. They're just as much fun.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Mark,
sure, new is better. While it's new.
Do new bikes ride better than our 30+ year old bikes did when they were new?
You betcha!
Will they still be running 30+ years from now like our old bikes are?
What with all those transistorized widgets and plastic parts, I don't think so.
And look at the pillion arrangements on a modern sport bike, where can an old fat guy find a skinny sex-midget that'd fit on one?

 

[CDNTX650]

Ha. My versys is pretty simple. Pretty basic keihin efi. And some kind of electronic ignition. I don't fall for that crap that new high dollar bikes have like electronic suspension etc. Simple efi 650 cc twin.

There is a owner of a vstrom on adv rider with 390,000 miles on his vstrom 1000. Fram filters and cheapie oil every 6000 miles. And a few lash adjustments. He said it uses very little oil. The things that are wearing is plastics from u.v. damage. It's a 2003. Efi is one of the biggest helps to engine longevity. Yeah...it can quit. But look how long t.c.i have lasted on xs650. I'm not worried about it at all.

Already versys 650 owners over 100k miles with nothing needing to be done but standard maint. Great hp even loaded up with camping gear and full hard bags. Love having my heated gear and grips cranked on. It's my forever bike. Aaaaaand...insured as a dual purpose. Ha. Looks are subjective. But plenty of choices these days.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi CDNTX650,
and there's another thing, the appalling amount of money SGI wants for insurance.
With a new bike you gotta keep the thing for 30 years before you can put affordable plates on it.

 

[CDNTX650]

Yeah. Really wanted the versys 1000. That big detuned zx-9 engine with 135hp would be a sweet mile muncher. But 650 cc dual purpose is already 130 a month or so. But that's really not that bad. I really don't need more anyways. When I first had it the plates were under sport....got that changed quick. They were like 220 a month under sport.

 

[Brassneck]

Pretty sure this is all subjective, and relative to what that "thing" it is you're comparing.
New= Better with a lot of things...consider the weight of almost any modern vehicle compared to the muscle cars of the 60/70's.

All of that newness is from materials/processing, technology/fabrication that just wasn't possible before...and it has allowed for things like feather weight sports car that can go 200+ and stop in record distances, and if in an accident, has the strength to actually save a life. This has brought up NEW possibilities with fuel efficiency, braking technology, etc.

To me, that's pretty amazing...so in that regard, New DOES equal better.

However, the flipside of that is, I can't really restore a modern car, or it's parts like I can a vintage VW...where literally all the parts were mechanical and intended to be salvaged and refurbished. A relay quits working...well, I can get in there and clean it up. Much like the XS.

I appreciate the new, but I also very much value the old.

 

[CDNTX650]

Perfectly said!!!!

 

[XSLeo]

I think a lot depends on how you define better. Better mileage, better braking, less maintenance, farther between oil changes.
Yes, all these things can be better, but what about character, the ability of repairing.
The way the bike feels when you ride it.
I have an '03 Harley. It's a great bike. It don't make me smile near as much as the old 650's.
Some of the modern manufacturing techniques and raw materials can improve things. I like electronic ignitions. Fuel injection is ok but if it has problems I can't fix it.
I shoot. Some of the ways they build guns nowadays makes them cheaper to build, have more consistent accuracy and not cost much to buy but they are not a pleasure to look at. Stainless steel and black plastic are not as pretty as blued steel and hand finished walnut.
So better is about like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder.
Leo

 

[weaselbeak]

The best looking bikes were made in the late 70s to early 80s. If they don't look good, it means something. Most of the newer bikes look to me like plumbing nightmares. Compare an early V-Max to the 2nd generation. Triumph is trying hard to channel the old vibes, and having success.

 

[CDNTX650]

That doesn't have much to do with anything in terms of it being a functional reliable bike. most new bikes are ugly. When it's loaded with a ton of luggage and my all of my heated gear is cranked on and im touring cross country I don't even think about looks. But I'm glad I'm not riding my cramped, colon tickling, hard to ride at 60mph all day long especially with a headwind....but fantastic looking xs650.

I get really tired of the "but efi can quit crowd" it's a rare....rare...rare occurrence. Even on early 90s BMW with Bosch systems. But what ever makes you sleep at night.

 

[schlakeandbake308]

i look at it this way:

I have had a whole lot of bikes and ridden many more than that. i owned a 2005? gsxr600 and a 2006 vtx 1300 just last year. I do a little racing now and then for fun, not really competitive, just for fun. I rode a 2013 Ducati Panigale last summer on a track and it was unreal. my vtx did 64,000 miles with literally no maintenance except oil changes when i sold it. still about the smoothest bike I've experienced. There is really not a fair comparison with regard to performance, comfort, handling when it comes between old and new.

That being said, I'm 25 years old and rode new bikes from the start. I don't own anything made before 1980 anymore. i have a 74 norton commando, a 69 firebird scrambler, an 80 xs650. I got into vintage bikes two years ago, sold all the new stuff, and now ride exclusively vintage bikes. i have far more fun on the old stuff than i ever did riding the new stuff. i love tinkering, i love the character, and i love the conversations. Its an entirely different culture riding the old stuff, and makes for much better conversation. I often have the slowest, worst handling, and most uncomfortable bike on the ride... and i wouldn't trade it for the world

 

[CDNTX650]

True Dat. My wife doesn't get why I always attract attention at gas stations etc. With any of the old stuff and why no one talks about her BMW. Because its a new BMW....like every other new bike. Tons of them around.

 

[schlakeandbake308]

i went on a 150 bike ride a few weeks ago, took my yamaha with me. everytime we stopped we got held up by somebody asking about it. Nobody could figure out why people were walking right past their custom haybusas and harley haha.

* not sure why the picture of the other bikes won't load but it doesn't matter anyway

 

[weaselbeak]

That doesn't have much to do with anything in terms of it being a functional reliable bike. most new bikes are ugly. When it's loaded with a ton of luggage and my all of my heated gear is cranked on and im touring cross country I don't even think about looks. But I'm glad I'm not riding my cramped, colon tickling, hard to ride at 60mph all day long especially with a headwind....but fantastic looking xs650.

I get really tired of the "but efi can quit crowd" it's a rare....rare...rare occurrence. Even on early 90s BMW with Bosch systems. But what ever makes you sleep at night.

I was commenting on appearance, which is a HUGE part of the motorcycling experience. And that makes it factor in to the "better" part of the discussion. Sitting on an 1800 CC appliance/sofa going cross country doesn't strike all bikers as the way to go. Carry that line of thought forward, might as well take an Escalade.

 

[CDNTX650]

I agree there. My father in law rides a gold wing. I hate it. I'd hardly call 650cc a versys an 1800cc sofa though.

My point I guess is...most I have met here who are obsessive of looks don't seem to ride a ton except shorter commutes and weekend beach runs. . Some aren't. But lots are here. Always a lot of low low km bikes for sale.

 

[CDNTX650]

I guess the question. Who does tour a lot. ...and I don't mean like 150 miles then home.... like weeks to months on the road and do you use your xs650?