New signal lights don’t flash

[Guss80special]

Hello. I’m hoping there’s someone out there that might help me with an electrical issue.

I bought some smaller black signal lights on Amazon the other day from vipcycle. They look great and I want to use them but they don’t flash

They only blink if I touch the power wire to the bike power wire while my existing lights are still connected. If I disconnect my existing signal light from power and only have the new signal connected, the new signal does not flash - it lights up, but does not flash. I can get them to flash only by connections all four orange power wires (2units) to one side of my bike power. Ugg. Not ideal.

Do you think this is something to do with resistance, or perhaps the signal relay on my bike requires a certain amount of draw to trigger the flasher? Do I need a different relay?

These new lights have 3 wires. Ground and 2 orange power lines. The bulb is dual filament and so they are supposed to work as both running lights and flashers, but I don’t really want running lights.
Instructions say:
“Hook one orange to headlight power and the other orange to signal power. Or, hook one orange to headlight switch, and the other orange to signal switch. Hook blue ground to any ground on the bike frame. “

I searched the forum but didn’t find a solution. Found some stuff about diodes,?? And people turning there signals into running lights. but I don’t think that’s my problem.

Any suggestions? Return them? Keep stock lights? Lol
Guss
1980 Special.

 

[weekendrider]

perhaps the signal relay on my bike requires a certain amount of draw to trigger the flasher? Do I need a different relay?

Yes and yes.

 

[Guss80special]

Thank you - that was fast.
I’ll search some more under relays.

 

[xjwmx]

I'd look for one made expressly to flash leds, since they will flash with a lower current draw. There's lots about wiring flashers here and especially on the 650rider.com site (referred to here sometimes as "the old site").

 

[Guss80special]

Cool. Yes. I’m finding lots of info now thanks for the pointers. G

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Gus,
the stock flasher unit needs 27+27+3 = 57 Watts before it'll flash.
If your new signal lamps will each draw 27 Watts if you twist the signal & running elements' wires together they should flash.
Note that the stock flasher is the ONLY flasher that'll work with the bike's signal self-cancelling unit.
The alternative is to use a generic 2-pin flasher that'll work with a lesser power draw.
It'll plug into the stock 3-way receptacle 2 ways. One way works, t'other way don't.

 

[rsor]

I used the two pin automotive flasher and took the cancelling unit out. No problems.

 

[Guss80special]

Interesting. Good info. Thx.
My new signals must be super low wattage as I have to touch all 4 power wires to my bike power to get a flash going. 1, 2 or 3 wires don’t flash. Gotta be all four. I took it appart and there’s no wattage stamp or printing on the bulb. No clue. Likely 7w or 8w each. 7x4= 28. I’ll try a new 2 pin relay this weekend and see what happens

I’m preatty sure my auto cancel was already removed or broken as it never auto cancels. It requires manual thumb push

I actually don’t care for the auto cancel business. Sitting at long lights turning left is a pain when it turns off. My old Bonny had it and I always got nervous turning left.

Thank you!!

 

[xjwmx]

I’m preatty sure my auto cancel was already removed or broken as it never auto cancels. It requires manual thumb push

If memory serves the canceller is a cube-like thing on the left side under the tank. To disable, all you have to do is unplug it and remove it.

Fred mentioned running elements. Does it take a dual bulb, like a brake light? Something I've wanted to do but will never get around to is wire the flasher to a relay, then use the normally closed part ofthe relay to drive the bulbs (single filament bulbs). The result would be the lights would be normally on instead of normally off, and to flash they would flash off rather than flash on. From the point of view of perception by drivers, I don't know if it's a good idea or not. With the stock system you'd have to change the rear lenses from amber to red. I think it's illegal and also confusing to have amber normally on on the rear.

 

[DanielBlack]

Something I've wanted to do but will never get around to is wire the flasher to a relay, then use the normally closed part ofthe relay to drive the bulbs (single filament bulbs). The result would be the lights would be normally on instead of normally off, and to flash they would flash off rather than flash on. From the point of view of perception by drivers, I don't know if it's a good idea or not. With the stock system you'd have to change the rear lenses from amber to red. I think it's illegal and also confusing to have amber normally on on the rear.

I've done this, and I love it. I feel much safer with the extra points of light demanding attention. True, in many jurisdictions the rears need to be red if running lights. A red LED bulb in the amber lens shows red when lit and makes it look stock at the curb. I've also wired my '77 'lights' switch to make both sides flash: 4-way hazards.

 

[Guss80special]

I tried a 552 thermal flasher. Brown to brown on the 2 prongs makes light, but no flash with any combo of connections. I’ll keep experimenting.

 

[Guss80special]

 

[rsor]

I used a Tridon product, flasher.

 

[Guss80special]

Ok. I bought an “electronic” 552LL for 3x the price ($14) of the thermal, and voila, it works. I have my $20 small black signals working now. I don’t know the diff btw the two. Perhaps the electronic one is truly variable load capable even though the descriptions are practically identical.
Thanks for all the tips guys.

 

[xjwmx]

View attachment 110127
I don’t know the diff btw the two.

Good you got it working, The diff I think is the thermal one actually heats up and with your new bulbs there isn't enough current to do any heating, so it doesn't work. It is probably a heating element and a bimetallic strip -- the element heats the strip and it bends, making contact with the light and breaking contact with the element, so the strip cools again and bends back, and it repeats. With the high resistance of leds there's much less current going through the element and it doesn't heat enough to do anything, I'm always impressed by what they accomplished mechanically in the pre-electronic days.

 

[Guss80special]

Interesting! I agree, it’s amazing the mechanical wonders people come up with. Thank you again!!

 

[fredintoon]

Yeah,
not enough load on a thermal flasher and it just won't flash, OTOH the more load you put on it the faster it clicks.
My bike's stock flasher cadenced OK with it's normal load but when I hung a few extra signal lamps on my sidecar it cadenced a lot faster.
Until it burned out.
Being too cheap to pay the appalling cost of a genuine Yamaha flasher I said goodbye to self-cancelling and laid out $10 on a generic electronic flasher.
The electronic flasher cadences at the same legal rate no matter how little or how much load it's carrying.
Even when Mr. Stupid mistook a black wire for a dark brown one to create a dead short it cadenced at the same rate.
For 3 clicks. Then the fuse blew. Took me half a pack of fuses to find out what I'd done.

 

[mrtwowheel]

Replace the old thermal flashers with electronic and you are done. No problems after that with whatever bulbs you use, LED or pulling a trailer, all combinations will work with the electronic flashers.

Scott