Oil Pump Gear Question With Pictures!

[lexlax]

Might be a stupid question,
but my camshaft and rocker arms have a lot of wear and look like no oil has been going to them,
also looking at the service manual pics i couldnt find close ups of the gear itself.

So my question is the oil pump gear supposed to be installed like this?

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Or like this? this is the way i found mine and it looked wrong to me because the cut out for it, fit the other gear exactly and i found no reason for that to be facing down.

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So is first photo correct and its supposed to fit the other gear on top?
Or is the second photo correct? and have the flat side up, the way I found it installed?


Would love to know if this is the reason why my rocker arms and camshaft look like this, really worn out, also have alot of metal shaving in my oil filter.

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[Brian902]

You definitely have oiling problems.

If that head has just been removed, that is the driest head I've ever seen.

And that cam is shot, big grind mark is not good.

Start looking for oiling issues first.

Sprocket orientation is secondary issue at this point.

Recess toward the pump, second picture looks right. When you assemble the tach drive you will see why.

Whoever worked on this head last just threw it together and did not care.

 

[CDNTX650]

What do the pump rotors look like?

 

[lexlax]

I haven't looked at the actual oil pump yet because those Philips head screws are really hard to take off

But does anyone know of picture 1 or 2 is right?

 

[gggGary]

those Philips head screws are really hard to take off

You should (must) own a hand impact tool.

Brian answered your ?; when you put the tach gear on the shaft the answer is obvious and unavoidable.

 

[CDNTX650]

Yes. Hand impact is essential. I have used a giant phillips and all my bodyweight with success on thosw pump housing bolts. I even used a center punch on the edge of the bolts repeatedly to try and break them a bit first.

 

[lexlax]

Recess toward the pump, second picture looks right. When you assemble the tach drive you will see why.

Whoever worked on this head last just threw it together and did not care.

Oops I skimmed through that part,
I will get to the oil pump rotors tonight and post pictures once I get to them,
And if it helps a little the previous owner of this motor didn't have a tach assembly,
So I'm making assumptions something was switched or installed or tinkered with wrong when assembled back, also if my oil pump rotor checks out fine, what would be my next step for finding out my oiling issues?

 

[CDNTX650]

That damage could also be from low oil....if the rotors check out fine run it with a tappet cover off and you will see real fast if the top is getting oil.

 

[gggGary]

I would carefully remove the oil feed tube assembly and check the restrictor orifice. Then I would probably check that all the oil passages are free using compressed air.

The tach gear or "some other spacer" has to be on that shaft or the oil pump gear wont be held in place by the nut............

One guess might be a silicone seal monster attacked the engine. Someone from the "if a little sealer is good" way too much must be better school. Another possibility is extended forks and oil starvation. The dip stick is at the back of the engine. Or some seal leak or blow by using up the oil. Better check the rod ends too.

 

[lexlax]

Well some more back history of the motor before it was torn down,
The previous owner used jb weld on the oil tube in several spots, I'll take the air compressor to it and see if air blows through,
Also the motor always had oil in it when I was running it, I know for a fact cause I would top it off a lot, because oil would be pouring out from the banjo bolts up top, oil would seep through the base gasket at the bottom, and oil would leak from underneath
As for the crank rods they look fine with no wear they were really oily when disassembling and there the jugs and pistons were really oily inside when dissembling.
When I get the chance I'll run compressed air through the oil passages and feel if air is flowing through,
Also I'll inspect the oil pump rotor and post pictures along the way.

 

[gggGary]

I think the plan should be REPLACE the oil feed tube assembly. That is NOT a place for a JB weld fix.
I will now guess the copper washers top and bottom at each banjo bolt are missing or damaged.

 

[lexlax]

I think the plan should be REPLACE the oil feed tube assembly. That is NOT a place for a JB weld fix.
I will now guess the copper washers top and bottom at each banjo bolt are missing or damaged.

Yup definitely will change that out, and I already got a copper washer kit from mikes,
I have an extra oil feed tube lying around, and the guy i got the motor from really didnt take care of it, im talking about RTV sealer for every gasket, jb weld on the oil tube, jank wiring, red paint on the side cases and valve covers with a paint brush kinda thing. Hopefully when im done replacing what needs to be done this motor will be reliable.

 

[lexlax]

bought the impact driver tool from harbor freight works like a charm,
heres my oil pump rotors, everything was intact and working with no clearance issues or wear, so im guessing this wasn't the problem,

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so what I will do next, is inspect the sump on the bottom and see how that is, then install everything correctly with my new parts and once the motor is put back together I will kick it over to see if oil is coming in through the oil feed with the banjo bolts loosened, then look through the valve covers and see if oil is squirting out.
If that doesnt work then I guess i will have to tear down the cases and see if something is happening there.

 

[angus67]

you wont be able to kick enuf to get oil to the top of the motor. Use the starter?
That pump housing looks like there is some deep gouging. I don't remember mine looking like that. could be you have too low oil pressure.

 

[NONclow]

That pump housing looks like there is some deep gouging. could be you have too low oil pressure.

+2 Time for a suitable replacement

 

[lexlax]

you wont be able to kick enuf to get oil to the top of the motor. Use the starter?
That pump housing looks like there is some deep gouging. I don't remember mine looking like that. could be you have too low oil pressure.

+2 Time for a suitable replacement

Will do, im ordering one right now, I'd rather be safe than sorry this time and 24 bucks for the rotors ain't that bad, considering im putting in new pistons and big fin kit, i also outsourced a new head and a cam from a buddy.
So hopefully, I wont have any issues and can ride reliably for a long time while doing the regular maintenance.

 

[xjwmx]

Did you get the big hand impact driver with the rubber grip, or the little 1/4" drive one? I find I use the smaller one pretty much to the exclusion of the other. At just $6, got to have it. Zillions of 1/4" bits out there too.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Just thinkin' out loud here. Was the pump dry, like your pic, when you disassembled it? Looking at the sidecover, the round passage going to the pump looks dry. There's also a hint of some kind of sealer where the pump body fits to the sidecover. The score lines in the trochoid rotor don't help either.

What I'm thinking is that the pump may have been assembled dry, and/or lost its prime, and became air-locked and couldn't pull oil from the sump.

 

[Brian902]

Like TwoMany, I have a second thought.

What was holding the pump gear in place when you took it apart.

The parts picture here shows what should have been attached.

If not that gear could have moved out of engagement.

Hmmmmm.......

 

[gggGary]

Couple of thoughts.
While your pump isn't pretty it's plenty good enough for an XS650. The 650 has a low pressure oiling system it don't take much to do the job.
The scoring means the lower screen is torn (duh, LOL)
In the top oil flow picture above you can see that the "adapter, nut thingie" between the upper crankcase and the oil feed tube is where the orifice is that reduces oil flow to the head be SURE you remove that adapter and check the orifice. Be careful when doing it, several have stripped the thread in the case by over tightening or not using two wrenches when replacing the feed tube. Are you opening the bottom end? With a PO who was Mr. RTV, blocked main bearing and transmission gear oil passages are a real possibility.... sorry.
Had a low miles Honda 750 chooper one time. The PO had all the engine covers chromed, used tons of RTV putting them back on. I had to hard chrome and regrind the crank journals, the RTV had plugged oil passages..... The 750 is a shell bearing engine that is much fussier about oil but.....