One step Forward.....THEN

[Orion61]

I posted a thread about Boiling out my carbs with Pine Sol a few days ago, I thought I had it beat, the bike ran for the few minutes I had to test it before the guys in the building it is in, needed to lock up.
Today I went to fine tune things and put the throttle cables. and air boxes back on, and when I started it, One side had idle issues (Right side), and the other idles fine but would pop giving it gas (Left).. which I think is a lean condition,(?) I saw when I reassembled the carbs one bowl said Carb 1 and the other Carb 2, I presumed carb 1 was the Left carb? or is that wrong and switching the carb bowls my issue?
like I said I don't know that much about which holes and pathways are idle and other stages. Does anybody have a couple diagrams for what is what? I cannot find my service manual, I think my Brother in Law borrowed it and didn't return it.
One last thing during my trouble shooting I took the air adjust screw needle valve out and shot some carb cleaner in there and it fired on the idle circuit... so it must be from before the screw GETS the fuel..
I honestly appreciate all the help and advice you have given to me, EVEN when it was on other peoples threads.
I really miss this bike, it ran so well for the 20 years I had it before I parked it and it was STUPID leaving gas in it.
What a Rookie mistake. I am embarrassed.
Larry

 

[weekendrider]

You may find the answer in this thread.

 

[Orion61]

You may find the answer in this thread.

Thank you, this was exactly what I was looking for.
It is the way I prefer to answer questions because, IF you give an answer it solves the immediate question,
Give a manual, I solves the current problem plus those that haven't arisen yet just from reading while looking.
I love this site

 

[B Burdine97]

When I troubleshoot things I like to change one thing at a time, see if and or how it changes the issue and record it. I noticed reading your thread that the bike ran well when you put "it" back together (putting carbs back on bike?), THEN when you put the throttle cables and air boxes on, it began to run poorly. You didnt exactly mention that you where running it without air boxes at first when it was running good, but Im going to assume you werent because thats how its interpreted by the way the post is worded.. So my question is, if when you put the carbs back on the bike and it was running good without the air boxes, and you added the air boxes and it runs poorly, are the air boxes potentially the issue? Might not fix your problem but its something to think about and it would be something to eliminate, trying to run it under the same conditions of when it ran well, i.e. running it without the air boxes. I find it strange it ran fine for a few minutes then out of no where started to run awful, unless there is just some of the worst gasoline in the system.

 

[Orion61]

Sorry about not being clear, When I put it together it was without the air boxes and throttle cables, It started and I didn't have a lot of time to check it out when I had to leave. So I just shut it off as it was, It sat for a couple days and when I started it up it wasn't running the best. I did get it to idle and run on its own without touching it for a half an hour by the end of the day BUT it stopped idling on one cyl and quit running. I could get it started again but one cyl was dead on idle and the other was popping giving it throttle. I must have still had some gunk in the tank..In my hurry to check it I didn't put filters on the lines.
I know (idiot). I pulled the carbs and brought them home I opened it back up and noticed in the bowl on one there was a path open but closed on the other.
(it has the deep drilled hole with a grooved slot on the lip of the bowl on the bottom is a hole towards the bottom of the bowl it is a very small opening and easy to get plugged, one bowl was open the other bowl 90% blocked)
I spent about 1/2 hour getting it open but not as freely open as the other. Also I saw some white small crystals growing in the bowl and by the floats on the upper inner part of the carb, (something from the pinesol, It was only on aluminum)? It looks like there was either something that flaked off and blocked the passage up, or something from the tank. I just didn't know which ports did what on the carb. also was wondering why the bowls on the set were marked 1 and 2.
I don't know if there was something different. I cleaned them out again, sprayed a lite film of Rem Oil in the carbs... I will try it again in a few days (health isn't the best) I think Iit is going to take a lot of time running with with seafoam and carb cleaner until it is back to being the same. Something else that came up was a nasty oil leak from the gasket on the cam adjuster.. just another bad thing that happens when a bike sits, probably leaked a couple teaspoons of oil where it had never leaked before.
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[B Burdine97]

Yeah if you had it idling for a bit then it stopped I would say there's some awful gas in it which then clogged up one of the passages for the pilot circuit and if your getting popping when you give her throttle possibly clogged a main get circuit? As much as it sucks to say I'd give them a good cleaning again. Syphin the bad gas out and put new stuff in. I always run 91 non oxy with a bit of seafoam in every tank.

 

[gggGary]

New fuel lines? I never reuse old black fuel lines. they get brittle and shed little shards of rubber causing float valve leaks and plugging jet holes. Have you pulled petcocks, is the tank clean bright shiny inside? Countless guys have cleaned their carbs only to open the petcock and refill them with crap.

 

[Orion61]

I dumped the old gas out and rinsed the tank, I am thinking it was something in the petcocks, I didn't take them off and tear them apart to clean them.
It is always the little things that cause the most trouble. I have sprayed them out again and used compressed air to blow out the passage ways.
I found one that was plugged up, I believe that was the idle issue. Everything else seems open.

 

[B Burdine97]

Then you should be good. There's something putting gunk through your carbs, hopefully it was that gasoline. To be on the safe side I'd add an inline filter. Let us know if the issue is fixed!

 

[Orion61]

Thanks Mr Burdine.. I appreciate the support, It sure get frustrating sometimes. Especially if it is your own fault. Plus not being able to get into where it is stored when you want is a pain too.

 

[5twins]

I'm not familiar with the bowls being marked "Carb 1" and "Carb 2". I thought they were both the same. The parts diagram indicates they are (2 req., same part #) .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Y.../XS650B/CARBURETOR TX650A - XS650B/parts.html

Are those labels factory markings (cast or stamped in) or just some P.O.'s scratch marks?

Your carb bodies do differ though. Your '75 carb set has only one choke assembly and it's mounted on the left carb. It's rich starting mix is shared with the right carb through a crossover hose. If you look at your float bowls, you will notice a rather large deep hole in the front lip. Near the bottom of this is the jet that feeds fuel to the choke when you activate it .....

Both your bowls should be set up like this however, only one actually accesses and uses it. If you look on the bottom of both carbs' main bodies (bowls removed), you will see a thin brass tube sticking out along the front edge, but only on one of your carbs, the left one. You can see it here in the upper right of this pic .....

That tube sticks down into that hole along the front edge of your bowl. It draws fuel up into the choke when you activate it. Since you only have one choke, only one carb needs this tube. Your right carb won't have it and the hole it would have fit into won't even be drilled.

So yes, you need to be sure that choke feed jet is clear or the choke won't function. But in your case, it only needs to be clean in the left float bowl. It doesn't do anything in the right one, doesn't even operate.

 

[Orion61]

Thank you, do you have pics like this that show the 2nd and 3rd stages and where they are? So one carb idles great, the other doesn't and when giving it throttle one side waits until the throttle lever is about 1/2 to 2/3rds open then the cyl kicks in and runs strong. Like I said I know NOTHING about these carbs...ER I know a little more now thanks to you! The cross over tube might not even been hooked up as it cracked and I didn't have any tubing at the time. Please tell me it won't run correctly without that tube hooked up, there are 3 tubes that are on each carb plus the fuel supply. one thicker tube and a thinner tube, then higher up there is another I thought it may have been an over flow vent that is why I didn't mess with it too much. plus the over flow tubes on the bottom of the bowls.. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advise! And I am acting on them so far..
(A pet peeve of mine is asking for help; someone takes time to give it and send pictures, and the person doesn't act on the advise.....GRRR thinking about that get me going)
Thank ALL of you, If anybody is into Astronomy I can help you there, Advice, help with computer tech.. especially Celestron Meade Schmidt Cassagrain scopes! My specialty.. even FINDING used equipment.. When it comes to carbs, I am all thumbs.. but I love my 650..

 

[Orion61]

5 twins I forgot to answer your question, If you look at your 1st picture it is right there in the bowel, yours is marked 2, My carbs are marked 1 and like your carb bowl pictured the other is 2...see it?

 

[5twins]

OK, I see that number now. Honestly, I never noticed it before. I don't think it means the bowls are different. I'm not sure what you mean by 2nd and 3rd stages. I can explain more about how your pilot circuit operates. It sounds like yours may be plugged in the carb that won't idle and kicks in later at higher RPMs. If you look at my last pic, the pilot inlet (labeled in yellow) is where the pilot jet flows it's fuel/air mix into the carb body. It goes through the body and into the main bore where it can then be sucked into the engine and burned. It exits the body into the main bore through these 4 tiny holes .....

You have to make sure these are clear. Dribble some WD40 or carb cleaner in the pilot inlet, then blow it through with compressed air. Watch for it to come out the 4 holes in the main bore.

 

[Orion61]

Great! I see them, By stages, a carb runs of the idle circut, then as the throttle lefer is moved fuel flows through anothe ste of ports somewhere.. that is what I am looking for., When it was idling if I sprayed fuel into the air adjustment screw with it out it would pop and hit a couple times.

 

[5twins]

There is a carb circuit diagram in the carb guide. You can find it in the tech section. But, I don't think you need concern yourself about the other higher up circuits at the moment. I think your problem is in the pilot or idle circuit. The fuel/air mix from the pilot jet doesn't seem to be getting through into the main bore. Also, you don't have an "air" screw. The mixture screw on these CV carbs is a true mixture regulating screw. It controls some of the fuel/air flow from your pilot jet, roughly 25% of it. The rest of the mix flows directly into the main bore through those other 3 holes.

The fact that spraying some fuel in the mix screw hole got the cylinder to fire is telling me the fuel/air mix from the pilot jet isn't getting there and then into the main bore. I think you have blockage in the main body portion of the circuit somewhere. You can flush and back flush this area. Remove the mix screw before doing it. Blow cleaner through the pilot inlet while blocking the mix screw hole with a finger. The cleaner should come out the 4 little holes. Block the mix screw hole and it's opening into the main bore. The cleaner should come out just the 3 little holes. Block the 3 little holes and the mix screw hole. The cleaner should come out only the mix screw outlet into the main bore. Spray cleaner in the mix screw hole. Block the 4 holes in the main bore. Blow it through and it should back flush out the pilot inlet on the bottom of the main body. By working back and forth like this, alternatively blocking the various opening and blowing cleaner through, you should be able to clear the blockage.

 

[Orion61]

I know one of the carb bowls has the tiny holes above the larger hole blocked, I have used fine emery paper on the inside of the bowl AND used a Qtip with emery wrapped around it in the large hole from the top of the bowl where the cut out is, one carb is ok and the tiny holes are free, If I spray some carb cleaner in the screw hole and blow air it sprays nicely out of the pilot AND the set of 3 tiny holes ok.
The one bowl WAS blocked from the top large hole with the cut out to the bottom hole 100%, I have that cleared now. (the one where the tiny pilot holes are blocked) so I think I have the issue of the idle figured. If it still misses when I get in to try again I am going to swap bowls and If the problem followes the bowl I will look for another bowl!! Thanks for your help. You have been very generous with your time! I very much appreciate it.
I do have a little problem reading diagrams and transferring to the carb (people joke about it, but I AM actually dyslexic). I will let you know more after tomorrow...cross our fingers.. I seriously miss riding the old girl...
Larry Duane Beach (AKA Cousin Larry)
**UPDATE**
I tested the idle circuit by taping over the small holes in the main area like you suggested, removed the air adjustment screw and used carb cleaner and blew air.
1st carb was clear and shot cleaner through the bottom by the floats! all is good
I did the same thing with the other carb and only got a slight drip, certainly plugged, I shot some cleaner backwards in the (float side) hole, blew air the other way and I got couple small pieces of hardened varnish out of the adj screw hole!!!! After that blowing the cleaner through the adj screw hole with the jets plugged gave me a nice clean spray out of the bottom like the other carb..Guess which Carb was dead on idle?
The piece obviously came through the gas line from the petcock (from me being too
lazy/afraid to pull the petcocks off and cleaning them)... NOPE I ADMIT IT, LAZY...
As my Dad used to say, "Why is there never enough time for people to do it right the FIRST TIME, but more than enough time to re-do the job".....Great advise Daddy..I hope you see me down here and are laughing your special contagious way I miss so much..

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Larry, in order for sediment to pass from the petcocks and fuel lines and get into the inner pilot circuit, it would have to pass thru the pilot jet, a very small orifice, less than 0.020" diameter. Sediment that small easily flushes out.

I'd say that your Pinesol routine more likely softened and loosened up varnish that was layered inside the pilot circuit, from years of wet/dry fuel cycles.

If so, you may want to be alert to future dislodgings, and consider running with a fuel system cleaner additive, suitable for that kind of varnish...

 

[5twins]

Sounds like you've got it. Make sure the cleaner will come out the 3 holes too, not just back and forth out the mix screw hole and the bottom of the carb.

 

[Orion61]

View attachment 89034 Well here we go I got them all back together, I am hoping that I can get into the Garage it is in to put them back on. 2M and 5 twins you guys have really come to bat for me. I just hope I can pay you back some day..Perhaps someday if I can pay the knowledge forward.View attachment 89034 View attachment 89036 View attachment 89037 View attachment 89036