pamco and E-advancer cut out at 3000 rpm and stalls

[Andy650rider]

Hello this is my first post. I recently purchased and installed the ( Basic Pamco High Output Electronic Ignition Kit + E-Advancer) kit from mikes on my 76 xs650C. I timed it with a timing light just like the points and the bike starts well and idles i can see the advance is working with the light but at 3000 rpm it starts to break up very badly and stalls . I contacted mikes asking for help and they eventually replaced the pick up and the advancer unit i'm still having the same issue. i have the coil mounted to the frame with a plate and grounded, all wires first time around where soldered and shrink wrapped i am using the stock 76 charging system with newer brushes and battery. So far i have tried disconnecting the charging system and using a battery charger neither has helped also the first unit would sometimes back fire when kicking it over so violently it blew my carbs out the boots . I was riding the bike a lot on the points before the swap so i don't really suspect carb issue .Thank you

 

[scabber]

Welcome. Since you are having the same problem after replacing. I would start by checking the voltage at the coil and kill switch. If you haven't used it turn it off and on to clean contact. The coil does not need to be grounded. Pictures of the wiring of the pamco and coil might help.

 

[Andy650rider]

Im going to test the coil tomorrow and the power wires. also might try a car battery with every thing separated. the kill switch has been bypassed since ive owned the bike so i know it not directly the problem ill report back with my findings and pictures.

 

[Andy650rider]

one more thing is it a problem to have the red wire from the advancer hooked to the same spot as the switched red/white wire to the coil ? i have them twisted together and crimped into the female blade connector for the positive side of the coil should i move that away from the coil to some other switched power ?

 

[pamcopete]

Andy...,

1. What type of timing light are you using?
2. Is the advancer replacement cap secure and engaged to the camshaft locating pin?
3. What is the battery voltage when this problem occurs?
4. What condition is your voltage regulator in?
5. Have you ever in the life of the bike cleaned and adjusted the contacts of the regulator?
6. Where did you mount the E-Advancer?
7. Did you ground the black wire from the E-Advancer coil side to the frame?

 

[Andy650rider]

Nice to meet you pete .
1. i'm using a cheap dial advance from harbor freight i've been using it to set the timing on my datsun and the xs for a few years .

2.Yes the cap and rotor are both totally secure to the cam shaft with the rotor tight first.

3.ill go check again but i was getting charging voltage i believe .

4. its original but functioning.

5. yes i did clean them with emory the other year .

6. the e advancer i have been zip tieing under the left side cover.

7.yes

i also tried unplugging the charging system with no effect. im going to go check the power and ground with a meter check voltage at the coil during the problem and take some pictures .

 

[pamcopete]

Andy...,

What is a cheap dial advance?

 

[Andy650rider]

It has a dial on the timing light that advances the strobe so that if you only have a tdc mark you can adjust with the dial. It seems to work well but hey what do I know about timing Lights I'm 25 lol . And it was very cheap from harbor freight .

 

[pamcopete]

It has a dial on the timing light that advances the strobe so that if you only have a tdc mark you can adjust with the dial. It seems to work well but hey what do I know about timing Lights I'm 25 lol . And it was very cheap from harbor freight .

Not good. Those types of timing lights do not work very well with the XS650. They are designed to work with a legacy distributor type of ignition, so get rid of it and spend maybe $2 more and get a regular timing light without the advance preset, or try using that timing light with the advance set to zero.

You said that the charging system is stock, so you should have the timing marks on the alternator rotor and stator housing.

 

[Andy650rider]

Yes I only use it set to 0 on the xs I tried using the other spark plug wire as I've seen you sugest and the light does seem more stable I have it set at 1200rpm right in the F mark and the advance is all in right about when it starts to have problems but I can see it advance to the lines and stop like it should. I just tested voltage at the battery at 1200 is hovering around 12.6 with every thing turned off At 3000 it's high 14s and I actually got it to rev past 3 for once to about 4000 and was seing 15 volts befor it did the normal dead stall. I notice it won't re start unless I turn the key off And on and then it's hard to start even back fireing and and kicking back then after awhile it settles down and idle quality returns. So is this a over charging isue ? I will buy a new timing light do you have any suggestions?

 

[Andy650rider]

alright i tried disconnecting the charging system under the seat no change also tried jumpering a good car battery to the bike battery with and with out the charging system plugged in no difference i rode it around the block and it runs better then ever below 3 grand as soon at you hit it it sputters and by 3100 or 3200 its dead and wont re catch unless i cycle the key then it fires right back up. this is driving me nuts its so nice and smooth down low i cant wait to fix it and ride lol .

 

[pamcopete]

Andy,

So far you have concentrated on the problem being the ignition. But, you have tried two ignitions and the problem persists. It starts, the timing is correct, it idles and runs up to 3,000 RPM. Have you considered carbs as the problem?

 

[Andy650rider]

Yes I have but the way the bike dies and won't restart untill the key is turned off and back on I don't see how that could be a carb isue. I cleaned them a few weeks ago ( they where still clean) befor I decided to replace all the ignition chasing inconsistent idle and occasional hard starting .the day my ignition kit showed up in the mail I was out riding 90 mph . the valves are adjusted the motor has a fresh top end and a early cam.

 

[Andy650rider]

Today I willtest the coil ,test the switched power at the coil for anything weird And bypass it . Are there any conditions that will make the ignition stop firing like could the coil be shorting internally but it only starts to do so when the timing is advanced all the way and the resistance acros the plugs is highest ? mabey I will retard the timing as far as I can and still get it to run and see if it will rev higher . I have the iridium spark plugs listed on mikes but I didn't purchase them there they are brand new ill look into that as well .

 

[Andy650rider]

Success!!! I ran a wire from the coil and pamco to the positive post of the battery and the bike runs great now. My only concern now is what's causing my red and white ignition wire to lose power at exactly 3000rpm every time ??? Very strange . And is my voltage regulator junk if I'm seing 15 volts at high RPMs? I don't want to fry the pamco. Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[pamcopete]

It's sessions like this one that make me wonder why I didn't opt for my first career choice......selling hot dogs at the beach.......

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Pete! My hotdog's gritty!


Pete: "Stop sticking it in the sand."


Pete! My hotdog tastes like burnt grass!


Pete: "Don't smoke while eating."


Pete! Where's the instructions, how do you do this???


Pete: "Open mouth, insert hotdog."...

 

[pamcopete]

Pete! My hotdog's gritty!


Pete: "Stop sticking it in the sand."


Pete! My hotdog tastes like burnt grass!


Pete: "Don't smoke while eating."


Pete! Where's the instructions, how do you do this???


Pete: "Open mouth, insert hotdog."...

Actually, the story is true. My bride and I were living the good life on the beach (Oak Island, NC) where nothing is so important that it can't wait until tomorrow when it became evident that I needed to start earning a living again. There was a guy on the beach with one of those hot dog stands on a trailer things and he seemed to be happy and made a lot of money with the winter free to drink wine and get a tan, so I told my beloved that was what I wanted to do. Her reaction caused the wine in my glass to boil, so I went to plan "B" and started PAMCO and she warned me there would be warranty issues(smart girl) but of course I ignored her. Like, not only would I still be living on the beach, but at least I would know where my next meal was coming from if I had gone the hot dog route.

 

[pamcopete]

Success!!! I ran a wire from the coil and pamco to the positive post of the battery and the bike runs great now. My only concern now is what's causing my red and white ignition wire to lose power at exactly 3000rpm every time ??? Very strange . And is my voltage regulator junk if I'm seing 15 volts at high RPMs? I don't want to fry the pamco. Thanks for all the help everyone.

All joking aside, I'm glad you persevered and found the problem.

 

[XSLeo]

On your stock regulator one of the issues is the setting. Get it set high enough to keep it charged at around town speeds and it overcharges at highway speeds. Set it to not over charge at highway speeds and it undercharges around town.
On the E-advancer units I think it has an over voltage protection circuit. Once you hit 3000 rpms it reaches a state of over charge, the protection circuit kicks in shutting down the power. It takes turning off and back on to reset the protection circuit.
I don't know just how such a circuit may work, I'm probably wrong on this, If I am Pete will set us straight.
How about that Pete, could the protection circuit act this way?
Leo