PAMCO Ignition System

[pamcopete]

Here are a few note about binding.

First, the spanner nut must be installed with the lip on the outside. Having the lip on the inside can distort the position of the advance plate and cause the locating pin to be pushed in and contact the inner brass bushing.

The retaining pin for the advance mechanism locating pin protrudes on some units as well and should be filed down;

Also, the locating pin for the advance mechanism may be too long which causes the pin to press on the inner brass bushing distorting it enough to cause binding. This can be felt when you install the advance plate if it is hung up on the locating pin, then file the pin down. The locating pin should just keep the plate from rotating. It should not cause it to bind.

In any event, I recommend that you use two brass bushings on the right side and just one brass bushing on the left PAMCO side. Do not install the labyrinths.

This recommendation is mainly for converting '80 to '83 models over to the mechanical advance. You can leave the earlier models as is.

 

[Sundie]

I completely understand the "guide" thing - but i just wanted to correct before someone says "i used a hammer, and totally scarred my bushings!" or something similar.

 

[BigJimmyW13]

haha no worries. That's why I put the disclaimer that Pete didn't necessarily endorse the vids.

 

[Sundie]

got my unit today, did up all the wiring and loosely mounted the coil for testing until i can fab up a proper bracket tomorrow. Works mint. The 78 frame has a lot of stuff in that location, so some creativity will be required.

Pete, any reason you can see that i shouldn't use both red/white wires? One for the coil, the other for the pamco?

 

[pamcopete]

sundie,

Yes, you can use one of the red/white wires for the coil and the other one for the PAMCO red wire. Install a 7 1/2 A fuse in the wire going to the coil.

I have mounted the coil in my '78/E using ground clamps. These same clamps are available in Canada as well:

Go to my website: www.yamahaxs650.com to see the clamps and the coil mounting method.

 

[Sundie]

sundie,

Yes, you can use one of the red/white wires for the coil and the other one for the PAMCO red wire. Install a 7 1/2 A fuse in the wire going to the coil.

Noted.

I have mounted the coil in my '78/E using ground clamps. These same clamps are available in Canada as well:

Go to my website: www.yamahaxs650.com to see the clamps and the coil mounting method.

It's not so much the method, as the stuff in the way. There's the bracket for the signal relay, the signal relay itself will have to be relocated, and a bracket for something i'm not quite sure what it is - something like 9 wires go into it, and it's a sealed unit, square shaped.

I think some stuff is going to have to come off, though i'm reluctant to take it to that level, due to stock love. I just have to talk myself into it.

 

[pamcopete]

sundie,

The turn signal flasher can be pushed into the little cubby hole where the frame comes together. The mystery box with all the wires is the turn signal canceler. A dangerous piece of equipment because it will cancel the turn signal at exactly the wrong time and get you killed. Just unplug it. No wiring changes needed. Keep the plug intact to maintain that stock condition.

The picture of the coil installation on the web site is from my '78/E. All that stuff will move out of the way easily.

 

[Sundie]

Yep, i kinda just nested the turn signal flasher (which is actually the 2 wire, so it doesn't even use the turn signal cancel) in and secured with a bit of zip tie. Cobbled up a couple of 1/8"x1" pieces to mount securely. Managed to not remove anything from the frame at all.

If that's the turn signal cancel, does that mean i can just take that unit out entirely since i have the non canceling flasher? That's a *lot* of frickin' wiring.

I didn't like the forward facing plug wires (plus Mike's doesn't send you a length and you cut to fit - the 2 lengths they send you are *just* long enough if you aim toward the back of the bike) and because the terminals are on the back of the coil as well - it may not be *much* less crap getting up in there to the back, but it's gotta be less.

the end position i got was more like the pictures in the docs that accompanied the kit than your web page. ie: mounted sideways, plug towers coming out the right side, facing to the back of the bike.

It's all back together now, and seems happy. A little different sound to the bike.

Regarding the fuse: If i'm going to put a fuse in, and run a wire all the way back to conveniently under the seat for the fuse, can i just go straight to the battery for the coil, with no key-on? The coil's not going to be energized unless the PAMCO is running (and grounding) it, is it?

 

[pamcopete]

sundie,

Running the coil straight to the battery is the way I installed my system on my '81/H. It's like having a relay to switch the power on and off and the coil gets full current from the battery for a hotter spark. So, good idea. Just remember that the PAMCO green wire and the coil are energized all the time when you are working on the bike. Install a 7 1/2 amp fuse under the seat and use that as a disconnect when you are working on the bike.

And, yes, you can remove the deadly turn signal canceler with no ill effects.

 

[Sundie]

Nice! Thanks Pete! Your product is great, and your support has been fantastic.

For anyone who cares, IMHO Pete's PAMCO unit is an excellent (and fairly simple) upgrade to your points (especially if you're tired of adjusting them every year or sooner), and possibly your TCI (and the only reason i say possibly on the TCI is that i haven't done one, but the result should be the same).

Pete, just one more question: I was reading on a thread from another board where you wrote:

Well, I usually reccomend 5K of resistance per plug, which can be achieved in one of three ways:

1. Non resistor wire, non resistor plugs (NGK BP7ES) with a 5K cap.
2. Non resistor wire, resistor plugs (NGK BPR7ES, 5K)
3. Resistor wire (Like from a 1967 Camaro), non resistor plugs.

I'm running the ngk iridiums from Mike's, but they're a resistor plug. With the Pamco kit from Mike's, i got 5k plug caps. Is this a problem? Should i go back to the 1k caps i was running previously? Or order zero-resistance caps? The bike seems to run fine (with what i assume is 10k resistance now), and with that 75kv coil, it should have plenty of juice to push that, i would think?

 

[pamcopete]

sundie,

With the "Green Monster" coil producing 75,000 volts, you should be using just what you have. The 5K caps and resistor plugs.

The effect of the resistance does not kick in until the gap in the plugs is jumped. Then it has the effect of reducing the current from the coil which makes for longer life for the coil as well as the plugs and reduces RFI.

 

[Sundie]

thanks again Pete!

 

[Sundie]

Pete:

Something interesting that i've discovered. I gapped my Iridium plugs to 40 thou as indicated was possible earlier in this thread, and i had significant hesitation/misfire over 5k rpm when on the throttle heavy. I regapped to 30 thou, and it totally went away. I haven't run the +12 straight to the battery from the coil yet, and i'm wondering if the 30+ year old wiring might be the culprit for this?

I'm going to go ahead and run the wiring anyway, and try gapping out to 40 thou again, but i wondered what your take on this might be.

The other thing i was wondering about is the gauge of the PAMCO wiring - it's 22 or 20 - is this enough to handle the current pull required for 40 thou gap for the ground? Should i just stick with 30 thou gap?

 

[pamcopete]

Sundie,

The 40 thou gap is with 14.5 volts getting to the coil, which is when the coil can produce 75,000 V. If you are running the coil from the red/white wire from the kill switch, then you could be loosing some current there.

Normally, the higher voltage comes in at higher RPM's, but if not, then gapping back to .0.03 is the thing to do.

Might work better when you wire the coil directly to the battery, but you also need to be able to check your battery voltage at the higher RPM's.

Also, measure the resistance from cap to cap. Should be 10K for the caps and 13K for the coil for a total of 23K.

 

[Sundie]

Sundie,

The 40 thou gap is with 14.5 volts getting to the coil, which is when the coil can produce 75,000 V. If you are running the coil from the red/white wire from the kill switch, then you could be loosing some current there.

That's what i'm thinking. I'm going to do the direct wire to the battery today, test, then regap to 40 thou, test. I'll let you know.

Normally, the higher voltage comes in at higher RPM's, but if not, then gapping back to .0.03 is the thing to do.

Might work better when you wire the coil directly to the battery, but you also need to be able to check your battery voltage at the higher RPM's.

According to my bar mounted voltmeter, it's hitting and sustaining 14v+ from 2000 on, and that's across a load, so that's good.

Also, measure the resistance from cap to cap. Should be 10K for the caps and 13K for the coil for a total of 23K.

25.3k. That's within 10%, which is nominal. So good there.

All righty then - just confirming i'm not going off on a wild goose chase.

 

[pamcopete]

The 277 and 270 rephase PAMCO Ignition Systems will be available from www.mikesxs.com in a couple of days, along with a new "Ultimate" coil in kit form that I have been using for the past year. This coil produces 82,000 Volts and has a long spark duration, and still runs cool! Best of several worlds.

 

[Sundie]

Hey! You even got your own section now!

 

[pamcopete]

Sundie,

Well, I like to think of it as "we" have our own section now. It was the great support and response from all the XS650 owners that made it possible.

Thanks, you all....

Pamcopete

 

[TwoJugs]

I guess you set timing with a light?

 

[gggGary]

This looks like a great product, but I have to ask why would I trade an ignition fired off the crank, for one fired off the cam which is driven by chains which stretch and vary?