PMA with BATTERY and CAPACITORS

[ANLAF]

Nice bike, itrguy. I am looking for a seat like that. I have been trying to work out what is going on with the clutch adjuster and the gear shifter - are you operating the clutch with the foot pedal? So what's the set-up for changing gear.

Anlaf

 

[itrguy]

Yes foot clutch,and jockey shifter. I have a modified clutch worm from Irishprick... member on here

 

[XSLeo]

Running two caps or a cap and a battery would be like wearing two condoms. It can be done but why? One works just fine.
Leo

 

[ANLAF]

XSLeo - I like the analogy (don't think I'll ever try that one, though), I wanted to get my head around the theory of these things. I understand one or the other works fine, and I would go for the capacitor, but my ageing knee and more surgery coming up made me think (very reluctantly for a kick-only bloke) to add the starter.

So theory and maybe just having to - here's my attempt at wiring a capacitor parallel with a battery and adding a starter. I think I need a bit of help here.

I might throw this one open in a new thread if it might help others with wiring issues (a few around at the moment).

Anlaf

 

[XSLeo]

If you are using a battery you won't need the cap. A battery with at least 180 cca's will run the e-start as well as everything else.
Why do you want to complicate things? KISS is my motto.
Leo

 

[ANLAF]

Having a capacitor is something I want to try, but I don't particularly want to dump the battery (it sits in there out of the way). It's more a question of theory rather than practicality - in theory it should be possible to have PMA connected to capacitor then (in parallel) to battery.

If it is wired like that, is it the capacitor or battery as primary item for providing the ummph! to start up?

Anlaf

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

The battery has the capacity to operate the starter. The capacitor is like a tiny battery, very little capacity, just smooths the output ripple from the charging system so the regulator and ignition system work, kinda fakes them out, so you can run without a battery...

 

[ANLAF]

It's becoming a little clearer, now.

Will the battery still be charged if a Sparx is wired in front of it?

Anlaf

 

[Robd]

I run both a cap and a small .8ah battery. I had just the cap at first. It worked great! The only reason I intsalled a battery with the cap. is that I stalled out one night and had no lights. I was on a busy road. Started to think I could get hit because nobody could see me.

The small .8ah battery only last between 5-10 min. Enough time to jump start it or kick it over.

 

[ANLAF]

Interesting, Robd - yes, what a good idea that back-up battery.

I take it the capacitor comes ahead of the battery in the wiring as I put in my diagram?

Anlaf

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Charging-wise, it doesn't matter which comes first. But if you have a dead short in the system, the battery most likely will have the capacity to deliver the current to blow a fuse, and in your diagram, it may blow both 20a fuses...

 

[kungfutoast]

Hi,
I am hoping to pick this conversation back up. Here is my situation... I am running Hugh's PMA with Pamco (e-advance). I have juggled between capacitors and two types of batteries. One battery, the Power Sonic https://www.power-sonic.com/product/ptx5lbs-fs/ is great! Runs reliably but is bulky. I have also run a Duracell https://tinyurl.com/y2h6bm7g This battery is weak as it is probably dead after two kick over attempts. It's pro's are that is it small and light weight. As for the Sparx Cap, I can never seam to get it to turn the motor over. From what I have learned about them is that these tiny batteries is that they drop to a zero charge if voltage goes down my .5v. It's lame. I have tried running the cap with the duracell battery with little luck.

I am wondering if I am missing something with this set up - the parallel cap and battery. I fabricated a sweet little battery box to house the fuse panel and little battery and would love to keep this configuration. Would switching over to LED bulbs solve the problem? Please share your successes! I am a visual thinker so the more photos the better.

Thanks yall

 

[jussumguy]

The electric starter requires a battery with enough juice to supply it.
The capacitor temporarily stores enough power to get your ignition working (2 or 3 kicks of the kick starter I think generates enough power)
Now that you have the permanent magnet charging system you are making lots of current. You need to keep some load on your system to burn up that power or you will have new troubles. Use old style lights.

 

[boonacka]

Bringing this topic back from the grave....

Would having a cap and a battery help with the sucking up the extra juice generated by the high output stator? in turn, helping out the regulator from overworking?

 

[Grimly]

Bringing this topic back from the grave....

Would having a cap and a battery help with the sucking up the extra juice generated by the high output stator? in turn, helping out the regulator from overworking?

Nope. The flaw with the standard regulator is that it's allowing the PMA stator to output all the time. To control it for long life, you need a series regulator, which will cut off the charge on each waveform as soon as pre-set system charge voltage is reached.
Couldn't do that, back in the days of PMAs, the electronics weren't robust or cheap enough.

 

[boonacka]

Nope. The flaw with the standard regulator is that it's allowing the PMA stator to output all the time. To control it for long life, you need a series regulator, which will cut off the charge on each waveform as soon as pre-set system charge voltage is reached.
Couldn't do that, back in the days of PMAs, the electronics weren't robust or cheap enough.

Ah ok. I’m currently running the MOSFET regulator that is included in the HHB CDI kit. I run a high wattage headlight bulb but all other lights are LED. My first regulator fried due to possibly bad grounds but unsure. Then my stator burned out due to possibly the residual damage from the initial regulator. New regulator and stator and been running perfect since. Just trying to think of ideas to help suck up some of the excess watts.

What about running two regulators? Lol

 

[Grimly]

Best plan is a Shindengen SH-775 series regulator. They're available used, but beware of cheap inferior copies .
Hundreds of PMA-equipped bikes have now been fitted with them by second or third owners, because for all its faults, the PMA is still fitted to many bikes as it's cheap to do. The bike makers still insist on fitting cheap crappy regulators though, which eventually spells doom for the stator.

Google for SH-775 and you'll find lots of info on retro-fitting them. There are now a couple of more modern options, but more expensive.
The SH-775 was fitted to a 4x4 Ranger and a Sea-Doo for a few years, hence available cheaply enough used. They're stone-reliable.

 

[boonacka]

Is the SH-775 compatible with the HHB CDI? the MOSFET regulator in the HHB kit is a 3 wire similar to the ones on some Harleys.

 

[Grimly]

Is the SH-775 compatible with the HHB CDI? the MOSFET regulator in the HHB kit is a 3 wire similar to the ones on some Harleys.

Not sure of the HHB wiring and what it's using as an ignition trigger. The mosfet version of the reg is just another shunt-dump type, same as the original, just that mosfets are cooler running, that's all.
That aside, if the HHB is just three phase wires coming out of the PMA, an SH-775 will do the job and keep the stator happy.

 

[boonacka]

The HHB stator is actually just 2 wires (2yellow). could i still wire this up to the SH775 or SH847?