Questions about my oil pump

[Mailman]

That's kinda what it felt like to me also. The last time I installed the screws and worked them up to 65 inch lbs, I was getting a nice solid click on my torque wrench. So now I'm really not sure what to do.
Whenever a Dr. gives me some information that requires making a decision I always ask the Dr. , if you were facing this, what would you do?
Well Dr?

 

[Jim]

Page 61 of my Yamaha manual...

 

[Jim]

Let me first qualify that as a 45+ yr. aircraft mechanic, I approach everything from that perspective. Sorry, but it's ingrained into me.


I would drill and re-tap the hole just to be on the safe side.

 

[Mailman]

Yeah, I never doubted you Jim, I've always known that lubricant on threads skews torque readings.
You know this is a carryover fear from my ham fisted youth. After stripping a few threads in aluminum you get fearful of that happening again so I tend to err the other direction , which has its own pitfalls.
Hey I know its not fair to ask you to diagnose my bike from 1000 miles away.
I think I was just looking for someone to say, " It's fine! Don't worry about it! "
Haha!

 

[Jim]

Maybe drill and re-tap for a helicoil...

 

[Mailman]

Let me first qualify that as a 45+ yr. aircraft mechanic, I approach everything from that perspective. Sorry, but it's ingrained into me.


I would drill and re-tap the hole just to be on the safe side.

I can do that. Bikes been down a week already. Sigh

 

[Mailman]

Believe it or not, I've never used a heli coil. That would allow me to use the original size screw, yes? And the threads are now steel, not aluminum?

 

[Jim]

Yes and yes...
Be sure and use a permanent Locktite on the helicoil and let it dry thouroghly before putting s screw in it. I'll see if I can find a good Youtube video of the procedure...

 

[Mailman]

Ok then, that's my plan. Oil delivery is too important to screw around with. Thanks for the input Jim.
Now I'm going to dinner! Talk to you later.
Bob

 

[Jim]

Try this one...

 

[Mailman]

Went out to the shop and pulled everything apart before it had a chance to set up. Tomorrow I'll try to find some heli coils. I'm guessing an auto supply store will have them.

 

[Jim]

A tool store store should also.
Been a while since I been in an XS motor and I can't remember if those holes go all the way through the case or not. If not, you're also gonna need a correct size "bottoming tap" as well as the "starting tap" the helicoil kit comes with.

 

[TimeMachine]

Dang this is difficult for me to read. Bob, can you use a slightly longer bolt ? Bottom tap may reach far enough ? IDK those holes.
And your own quote "carryover fear from you ham fisted youth" reminds me of exactly that learning curve we all went through.
Recently, my thread of "calibrated fingers" was popular for criticism. An inch pound wrench set at 65 actually scares me right there. On oiled bolts as well . It is very easy to believe a spec on paper. We must be aware of the recommended spec and also use our experience. Trust your experience ! Experience sometimes out weighs a spec on a 40 year old page. -RT

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Bob,

Assuming that you have established for sure that you need to do a thread insert procedure (heli coil or similar product):

This procedure is a delicate one. One that calls for some experience. I suggest that you practice installing a threat insert in some innocuous aluminum part that is expendable. I would do 10 of them in some junk engine case before doing one in your beloved bike.

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Seems that TimeMachine and I were typing at the same time, and both of us were thinking about the "experience" variable.

 

[Jim]

I suspect it's not all Bobs fault. His torquing with lube didn't help, but he never got to 70inlbs so I suspect he only went to about 85-90inlbs actual. The threads should have been able to easily take the slight over-torque. I'm guessin the damage was previously done...

And I'll concur... practice would be a very good idea.

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

BTW, there are many threads in The Garage devoted to thread insert installation which are worthy of reading.....

 

[weekendrider]

C'mon guys aren't ya'all stirring up emotions before commotion. Mailman I've done a dozen + heli-coils and it ain't that bad. And i'm not close to being as meticulous or careful as you. To that point, I'll admit to using TimeMachines "calibrated finger" method to assemble two oil pumps with no ill effects.

 

[gggGary]

Couple things. I'm with Timemachine here on torque wrenches and small bolts into aluminum. Just on this forum I've seen LOTS of guys ruin threads with torque wrenches, and those are the few that publicly admit they've done it! The threads go into the COVER not the engine, I'd replace the cover before using helicoils. AND I'd have let the threadloc set up and run it. Those bolts don't really have that much load on them, the cover is located by the retaining pins. Now that you are where you are, I'd do some hole depth measuring, perhaps Carefully run a bottoming tap, get NEW button head bolts maybe buy them a bit long and cut them to ideal length. Check by running them in without the cover, perhaps engaging a bit more thread than the stock bolts. Then I'd use thread loc, HAND tighten the bolts and call it done with no worries.

 

[TimeMachine]

Good news And solid advice right there !