Rect/ Reg

[peanut]

You cannot just say "combined rec/reg" as if there is only one. There are 2 very different "combined rec/regs". They are not the same and they are not wired the same.

yes I am aware of that but you wouldn't expect to see a late combined reg/rectifier mated with an early bike would you !

I naturally assumed that the po had an early combo ie 1980 not 1983+

There is no requirement to ground the rotor, but it can be grounded. For 70 to 79 Yamaha chose to ground one brush, but for 80 to 83 Yamaha chose to not ground either brush.

If one brush of the 70-79 model isn't grounded how do you suppose the rotor creates an [ electrical [ ahem correction magnetic ... energy field? (senior moment lol )

Why would Yamaha have considered grounding either brush ? the whole principle of the later charging system is that the combo rect/reg grounds one brush and therby controls charging.

Thank you for the friendly and couteous manner in which you responded. I sometimes wonder if we are actually members of the same community

 

[retiredgentleman]

"yes I am aware of that but you wouldn't expect to see a late combined reg/rectifier mated with an early bike would you !"

peanut.................You don't have an understanding of a modification that quite a few lads have done. They use a late (80 to 83) combo rec/reg, and mate it with an early (70 to 79) engine/alternator. They unground one brush, use 3 nylon screws, and run a switched battery supply to one brush.

"If one brush of the 70-79 model isn't grounded how do you suppose the rotor creates an electrical energy field?"

Read my previous posts. I said the 70 to 79 has one brush grounded. I also said you don't need to have either brush grounded. The rotor is a simple electro-magnet. A magnetic field (not an electrical energy field) is created when current flows through the rotor. Amazingly, the 80 to 83 creates the magnetic field with both brushes isolated from ground.

"the whole principle of the later charging system is that the combo rect/reg grounds one brush and therby controls charging."

You will not find one brush (80 to 83) at ground potential. That is why both brushes are insulated from ground. One brush is at battery + (+13 to +14.1 volts) voltage, and the other brush will be at +1 to + 6 or 7 volts.

 

[peanut]

whoa !....lighten up there

I just asked a question is all.

 

[franklinshaw]

whoa !....lighten up there the fella

I just asked a question is all.

You carry on like this and people are gonna think you got the hots for me or something

You're twisting everything I said RG so I think its best that you stop trying to 'enlighten' me and go 'help' someone else .

Think about wat ur saying.. This guy knows his stuff. U may need him one day. Jst saying.. Don't burn any bridges is all.

 

[peanut]

Think about wat ur saying.. This guy knows his stuff. U may need him one day. Jst saying.. Don't burn any bridges is all.

thanks for the advice ..

 

[franklinshaw]

Well.. I guess u gtta do what u gtta do!

 

[XSLeo]

peanut, you can use a stock later, 80 up reg/rec, on the 70-79 bikes. You just need to unground the brush and hook that brush to power after the switch.
Rg is speaking of after market reg/recs. They make two designs of reg/recs. One uses one brush grounded, the other has no grounded brush.
The one used in this thread is the one designed for one brush grounded.
I think untill you better understand how the different systyems work you might want to refrain from commenting.
Leo

 

[weekendrider]

XSLeo after finding the early brushs on the 81(where it did ground).
I was wondering instead of nylon screws couldn't you just put in the later brushs(brushes) that mount to the isolating block only?.

 

[XSLeo]

Early brushes are 70-79, later are 80 up.
Yoy try to use the later brushes on an early model the inner brushe will still be grounded by the steel screw. The later stator and brush holder are different.
I thought I had some pics showing the inside of both an early and late stator, couldn't find them but did find pics of the early and late brush holders.
In the first pic is the early holder. You can see that three holes are just through the holder and the screws thread into the stator. These hold the grounded brush. The fourth hole has a threaded insert in it. This is so the one brush is insulated from ground.
On the other you will see it has two holes straight through and two with inserts. The two that go through just hold the holder to the stator. The two with inserts insulate both brushes from ground.
It might be possible to mod an early stator so a later brush holder fits. I haven't tried myself. You would need to drill out the one screwhole to provide clearance for the insert. Might be tough because the hole will open up into the area where the holder sets.
Leo

 

[peanut]

p
I think untill you better understand how the different systyems work you might want to refrain from commenting.
Leo

I asked a question to confirm my understanding of the op's charging system.

 

[XSLeo]

I'm sorry if I offended you, That was not my intent. Some of what you said was right but the OP has less knowledge than you and some of what you said was confusing the issue.
I may have been a bit harsh. I hope you take this not as bashing but as constuctive critism. With a bit more study you will better understand the systems.
Leo

 

[peanut]

apologies for the delay in replying but my laptop suffered a virus and its taken a while to get back up and running.

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply .Please don't apologise..... I over-reacted to what I saw as critism from you and RT.

It was not my intention to cause confusion or be misleading so I won't be contributing in future to any technical posts,.......if I post at all . I will confine my posting to asking for advice should I need to.

 

[Robert Dell Aquila]

"yes I am aware of that but you wouldn't expect to see a late combined reg/rectifier mated with an early bike would you !"

peanut.................You don't have an understanding of a modification that quite a few lads have done. They use a late (80 to 83) combo rec/reg, and mate it with an early (70 to 79) engine/alternator. They unground one brush, use 3 nylon screws, and run a switched battery supply to one brush.

"If one brush of the 70-79 model isn't grounded how do you suppose the rotor creates an electrical energy field?"

Read my previous posts. I said the 70 to 79 has one brush grounded. I also said you don't need to have either brush grounded. The rotor is a simple electro-magnet. A magnetic field (not an electrical energy field) is created when current flows through the rotor. Amazingly, the 80 to 83 creates the magnetic field with both brushes isolated from ground.

"the whole principle of the later charging system is that the combo rect/reg grounds one brush and therby controls charging."

You will not find one brush (80 to 83) at ground potential. That is why both brushes are insulated from ground. One brush is at battery + (+13 to +14.1 volts) voltage, and the other brush will be at +1 to + 6 or 7 volts.

Hows it going, was reading through this post and saw your comment. I have an 80-83 reg/rec on my 1978 650 with 70-79 stator. Are you saying that I dont need either brush grounded? I have the 3 nylon screws on my stator right now to isolate inner brush. I am getting a really low charge like .6V when revving my engine. Could this be because the other brush is grounded? Appreciate any help. Thanks

 

[5twins]

For your set-up, you don't want either brush grounded through their mounting screws. That's why you switch the 3 inner brush mounting screws to nylon ones. The original steel screws grounded that inner brush to the alternator housing. The outer brush mounting screw is isolated already in the brush holder so it doesn't ground out (see Leo's 1st pic above). The ground signal to that brush is controlled by your late style regulator. But, to complete the circuit, to make this mod work, you need power fed to the other brush. You need to change the original ground wire that was run to the inner brush to a switched power wire, one that gets turned on and off with the key. So, there are two steps involved with doing the mod you have - installing the nylon screws AND changing that inner brush wire. The mod won't work unless you do both.

 

[650Skull]

To help with some background
http://www.xs650.com/threads/nylon-screws.53005/

 

[Robert Dell Aquila]

To help with some background
http://www.xs650.com/threads/nylon-screws.53005/

Yea still havent figured it out man. I just know that if I buy a different reg/rec the charge will probably stay the same... just trying to figure it out with the equipment I have now before blowing more money.