remove starter wiring to make kick only help! no spark!

aussiejohno

XS650 Enthusiast
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Hi Guys,

I need some help with a starter delete/ fix. I had my bike running OK until I went for a long ride in hot Sydney weather and blow my ultimate coil on the Pamco kit. Now i am trying to get it running with the old stock coils and points. I have timed it up, power is getting everywhere (lights,blinkers, dash) except the coils and starter button. the starter button doesn't work at all and the only time the coils get spark is when I bypass the starter solenoid with the R/W wire straight to the + on the battery! I am happy to make it kick only if that would help. Thanks for any info.

My Bike is:
1980 XS650
stock harness
stock points and coils
New Starter solenoid (thought the old one was the problem)
 
Welcome to the forum aussiejohno. When you bypass the starter solenoid did you also bypass the safety relay? Follow one of the wiring diagrams on the site and see if that isn't holding you up. I am not an expert on the wiring side. I rewired my own, very simple, no starter. One of the fellers will jump in and help.

Anlaf
 
Cheers Anlaf, I just bypass the solenoid not the safey relay. I would like to make mine kick only but I have no idea how to wire it up. Is it easy?
 
the coils should be live as soon as you turn the key switch on .

They are not fed by any relay they are fed directly from the kill switch (R/W wire) which is in turn supplied by one of the main fuses. and are constantly live whilst the main switch is on. The safety relay gets the same live feed from the R/W wire so it looks like the coils are fed from the safety relay but they are not

. Did you isolate the coils by connecting the live coil feed to the starter solenoid ?

Check your fuse then check you have 12v+ either side of the kill switch then make sure the R/W wire from the kill switch feeds the coils as well as the safety relay if its fitted.
 
Aussiejohno - we'll get you there. Select one of the many wiring diagrams on the forum (some are simplified so even I can follow them) and match what you have done.

Anlaf
 
the coils should be live as soon as you turn the key switch on .

They are not fed by any relay they are fed directly from the kill switch (R/W wire) which is in turn supplied by one of the main fuses. and are constantly live whilst the main switch is on. The safety relay gets the same live feed from the R/W wire so it looks like the coils are fed from the safety relay but they are not

. Did you isolate the coils by connecting the live coil feed to the starter solenoid ?

Check your fuse then check you have 12v+ either side of the kill switch then make sure the R/W wire from the kill switch feeds the coils as well as the safety relay if its fitted.

Ok so I check for 12v+ on the kill switch loop and I am only getting 3.5v+, What could be coursing that? I have removed the electric start wiring (solenoid, safety relay) now will this effect the kill switch loop?
 
Aussiejohno, I am presuming your battery is fully charged and in good order, or your capacitor (if you are running SPARX) is connected correctly.

Check those connections.

Anlaf
 
Ok so I check for 12v+ on the kill switch loop and I am only getting 3.5v+, What could be coursing that? I have removed the electric start wiring (solenoid, safety relay) now will this effect the kill switch loop?

if you have 12.5v at the battery positive then check the voltage at the main fuse it should be very similar.
I don't know your exact wiring because it sounds like it has been modified.

You should have a Red White wire from your fuse box which goes directly to your kill switch so check both wires at the kill switch (in and out) they should both have 12.5 v with the main switch on .

If you have 3v then you have a bad connection somewhere probably inside the kill switch .

Follow the wire from the battery to fuse to kill switch to coils .
 
If your bike has the old stock fuse panel (spring clips with glass fuses), that may be your reason for the voltage drop down to 3 volts. That fuse panel is worn out, and can have high resistance. Replace it with automotive blade type fuse holders.
 
Ah ha thanks for the help guys I think I know what the problem is, I have stock wire to stock coils and the old style fuses but I had to change the conectors that join the brown wires on the coils to the kill switch wires. Maybe there is a bad connection. I will try that and let you know.
You guys are great a wealth of knowledge and really helpful!
 
Here in the US the 80 got the TCI ignition. Your being an Australian bike with points you may want to use a 79 wiring diagram.
That's what I'm looking at now.
From the battery power flows on a red wire to the fuse box. At the fuse box power flows through the main 20 amp fuse and out a red wire to the main switch.
There are several points along this red wire power can get lost. Any connectors can be dirty or loose fitting. The key switch itself can be dirty. It can be taken apart and cleaned.
At the key switch power flows out on a brown wire and a blue/yellow wire. The brown feeds power to most of the bike. The blue/yellow feeds power to the lighting.
Now this brown wire goes back to the fuse box and feeds power to the other three fuses.
It feeds the ignition fuse where it leaves the fuse on a red/white wire to the engine stop switch. There are several places along this power path that can lose the power, as before check every connection. The engine stop switch contacts can be dirty. It can be taken apart and cleaned.
From the engine stop switch the power flows to the ignition coils on a red/white wire. This red/white wire also feeds power to the safety relay and then to the starter relay, then out from this relay to the start button.
At the coils the red/white wire has a connector that accepts two wires. On the coils you a brown wire. The brown wires plug into the red/white wire.
At this point it may get a bit confusing because the diagram shows one coil has a orange wire and the other a grey wire. This didn't happen very often, both coils have orange wires. Now to wire the coils to the points so the plugs fire the right cylinders, the wire from the coil that fires the right side plug plugs into the wire going to the upper set of points. The left coil goes to the lower set of points.
As mentioned there are many places along this power flow that power can be lost. Following the power flow along this path and checking voltages at every connection you will find the weak spots.
Once you get every thing clean and tight the voltage on the red/white wire at the coils should be within about .2 or .3 of a volt of battery voltage.
Quite often the problem is dirty contacts in the switches. They can be taken apart and cleaned. Another common place is the fuse box. Glass fuses were crap 30 years ago and 30 years didn't improve them any. The metal clips that the fuses mount into were fine when new but 30 years didn't do them much good.
Even if the current flow didn't blow the fuse the constant heat from carrying the current will weaken the clips. The weakened clips won't hold the fuses tight and the heat increases, weaken the clips more, a vicious circle.
Replace the stock four fuse box with four inline fuse holders that use the modern blade type fuses that cars use. This will fix the fuse holder issue. Some don't like the four inline fuses and use a four place fuse box that uses the new blade fuses. Either way replace that old fuse box.
It is also a good idea to go through the whole wiring and checking each and every connection. Clean, tight, and a dab of dielectric grease to help thing stay clean. Even Vaseline, or plain grease can work.
Leo
 
Wow! Thanks Leo great write up, I was getting confused with the wiring diagram and now I know why. I thought it was a bad connection where the coils have been hook up but it was not. So I have started to clean up the wire harness now. Your right there are a lot of connection on it that need a cleaning and I will be definitely getting a new fuse box. One thing I did notice it that the R/W wire where it conects to the coils not in a dual holder it has been split individual with separate connectors would that make the kill switch not work?
 
you need to buy a multimeter and do some continuity and voltage tests ...or its just random guesswork otherwise.:wink2:
 
Yeah I got one penut just working out now haha funny thing is my brother and dad are sparkys (electrician's) but trying to get them over to help is hard work even with beer!
 
Ok fellas my brother came over and fixed the problem in 3 minutes it was the kill switch! it was reading that it got 12V+ on it but had no continuity so weird but all sorted thanks for the help again Cheers.
 
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