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Rotor rewind regret

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by glennpd, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. glennpd

    glennpd 4 bikes, 4 dogs, 1 wife

    I bought a 1980 XS a few years ago as a project bike. Within 1 week it was running like a scared deer. My only problem was that it would drain the battery. After doing only a very little research on the web I found that the XS650 was notorious for shorted rotors.

    I then started to investigate and I found the stator connector somewhat toasted and various slices and dices in the wiring. I figured that I need to start with a clean slate and more knowledge. I purchased the CD's on the XS650 electrical. These I found very informative. I was now equipped with knowledge.

    I then bought a new loom from MikesXS. It closely mathed the original but not quite the same.:mad: I contacted MikesXS and they sent me a replacement which looked better. I removed all the old wiring and installed the new wiring.

    I then tested the rotor and found it to be bad (1.2 OHM) and promptly took it to my local Electric motor repair shop for rewind. I also checked the stator (many steps including light bulbs and various chants) and found it to be healthy. OK!

    I moved on to the voltage regulator an it too was in good shape. I re traced all the wiring based on the corrected wiring diagram provided with the CD's. and found a mis-connected wire in the headlight. No biggie, I re-connected and re-tested the connections in the headlight and all was as per Mr. Yamaha intended it.

    The electrical shop apparently were on a different planet than me because it took them 1 month to get the rotor finished. You know time space kinda thing E-MC2 stuff. Finally they presented me with a finished rotor with 5 OHM resistance. Presently I scurried home and prepared to install it on the crankshaft but before that I thought I would just check their work. Mmmm infinity seems like a little too much resistance. I inspected the
    rotor to find that in the process of handing it to me one of the "cold" solder joints globbed on to one of the leads lost it delicate bond.

    I grabbed my injured rotor and dashed back to the shop and presented them with the apparent cold solder joint. They promptly handed it back to the man behind the curtain and was informed the OZ fixes all. Lo and behold when OZ completed magic it was healed and ready to spin wildly on the end of my crankshaft.

    When I arrived back home I installed the rotor securely on the crank. Re-installed the stator. Connected the stator connector and the tci connector and the yellow reserve lighting wire. The excitement was nearly more than I could bear. Prfime, ignition on, press starter button, SCREECH, GRIND,GROAN! I once again removed the stator to find that the screws from the brushes chewed deep gouges into the copper slip rings but only on half of the rotor. Mmmm could it be that the rotor was assembled tilted? Indeed it was!

    Once again pull the rotor find the nearest worm hole to get to the motor shop and presented them with their newest fiasco. OZ handled this one personally and they dissasembled the rotor and re-pressed it together just about perpendicular to the axis of the shaft. Warped my car back home and began to re-surface the slip rings with a block and fine emory. When I thought it was good enough to pass current to the brushes, I re-assembled what now has be come a hobby, rotor, stator, wiring yahta yahta yahta.

    Key on, press the button, crank crank crank. :wtf: Pulled a spark plug, grounded the plug on the head. Crank crank crank, spark, spark spark. Ok maybe the other side. Crank, crank crank, spark spark spark. Mmmm. :wtf: Place finger of now open spark plug hole, crank crank, crank, Poof, poof, poof. good compression :wtf: Plugs back in. Maybe more enrichment. Pull the knob all the way out, prime the carbs again. Crank, crank,crank, pop. :wtf: Less enrichment, push the knob in all the way. You know the drill. Same thing. Maybe ether. pull the air cleaners, spray ether, quickly push them over the carburetors. Nothing Nada, zero zilch. :wtf:

    At this point I started to drink heavily. I will finish this post tomorrow but I will leave out puking, falling down and hangover parts.

    Glenn
    :banghead:
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  2. Tomterrific

    Tomterrific XS650 Junkie

    I see that you have a 1980 with electronic ignition. There is a little magnet on teh rotor that triggers the pick up coils for the black box. I think the rotor must have been pressed together out of time but I don't know this for sure. If you have spark and compression teh next is fuel and timing. Squirt some carb cleaner in teh carbs to act as fuel and if that doesn't fire the engine you are going to need to check the timing. There is also the chance the engine is flooded but I assume the plugs were not wet or carbon fouled when you pulled them.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  3. retiredgentleman

    retiredgentleman XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    glennpd;

    You should have spent more time reading the threads about rotors on this site. Even some of the suppliers of "new" rotors have manufacturing short comings, such as the slip rings run out not true.

    Its been found that www.customrewind.com does a high quality rewind for a reasonable price.

    Sounds like your local rewind shop are a bunch of retards. Tom is likely correct, in that they re-assembled the frame halves oblivious to the pick-up magnet indexing with respect to the keyway.

    In a related story....................my riding buddy took his failed rotor to a local rewind shop here in Calgary. They put it in the hydraulic press incorrectly and totally destroyed the rotor frame:yikes: He ordered another rotor from ebay.
     
  4. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    6,965
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    In my personal experience auto electric shops fall into two categories. Maybe three. The one you want is the one run by an old guy. He's over 60; maybe in his 70s. That was true 30 yrs ago, and still is.
     
  5. ReycleBill

    ReycleBill Part Time Tyrannicide

    Ditto Custom Rewind as all they do is motorcycles and they do them well.
     
    aliissari likes this.
  6. glennpd

    glennpd 4 bikes, 4 dogs, 1 wife

    As promised yesterday, I will no pick up where I left off.

    Since the bike sat idle for severasl months with a questionable gas tank, I decided to pull the csrburetors and scrub them till they could no longer heide even the smallest speck of dirt, rust, rubble or mouse droppings. I inspected the carburetor junction boots and found them to be in pristine condition. I then re-installed the carbs, air cleaners (sans the PIA inter housing connector. Turn the key and click, click click. Battery needs re-charge. Ok, I thought I have a right leg. So I removed the headlight just in case the draw would impede the process. Turn the key thrust violently with my right leg and discover that I am not as young as I once was. However the motor did crank over but no "fire in the hole". I decided to give it another jab just to nearly crash me and the bike onto the garage floor.

    After considerable reflection on how this used to be not only easy, but it was the only way I used to start all my earlier bikes, I decided to break out the trickle charger and let OHMs law and mechanical advantage do the engine spinning for me.

    A couple hours later I was back at it again, this time with power assist (Oh no whats next a scooter chair at no cost to me? whooho!). So after a lengthy period of cranking, pulling plugs, smelling plugs, squirting ether, cussing, lighting candles, promising first borns to the devil, praying for the miraculous intervention of Tom McCahill and Smokey Yunich still no self sustaining internal combustion.

    Off go the carbs, gas tank, stator rotor begin the witch hunt again. Just to be sure I locate a rotor on eBay and buy it.In the meantime I de-rust my tank, boil the carbs in a pot full of water and a small amount of aqutomatic dishwashing detergent on top of my BBQ.

    when in a week the new used rotor arrives I compare it to the old rotor and finnally Tom McCahill comes through. When the electrical motor shop pressed (and pressed again) the rotor back together they somehow did not line it up as it was before. In fact it was around 45 degrees off. I quickly re-assembled everything gave it choke, and in two puffs fired right up. Aleleujia! Now I am lighting candles in front of my 1959 Popular Mechanics opened to Tom's article on the Plymouth Fury.

    All of this occured about five months ago, and the final resolution just this past weekend. I want to commend TomTerrific (any relation to Tom McCahill?) for his immediate diagnosis of the problem. Way to go TomTerrific! And I also agree with RetiredGentleman that I should spend more time reading these expert threads than scurrying about the garage lighting candles/


    Thanks all, I hope you have enjoyed my regrets

    Glenn
    :bike:
     
  7. jamesgs4

    jamesgs4 fuck this, let's ride!

    I have a feeling this story will end up with a PMA swap. How much time and money is going to be sunk into the old crappy charging system?
     
    aliissari likes this.

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