Solid State Reg/Rec,Whats the benefits?

[XS650D]

I have all original electrical on my 77 Standard.I am not having any issues but thinking off upgrading some off the electrical to lower maintenance and hopefully improve the the bikes starting and running characteristics.
I was wondering what the benefits of a solid state Reg/Rec are vs the original design.I find that if i use a meter on the battery cold and fire it up it will take approx 5 minutes before the the i see approx 14.7 on the meter .Will that improve with a solid state unit or does it just keep the volts from fluctuating like the old unit does with rpm.
Does anyone still run the original electrical on there bike with no problems and no plans to PMA it!!

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[jussumguy]

My fleet all run stock charging systems with radio shack rectifiers and Chrysler regulators. I wouldn't want it any different. All four work perfect

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I still run the original charging system, with steam gauges and flintlock ignition.

With hi-tech gadgets.

And cigarette lighter...

 

[grizld1]

D, as in so many things, there are advantages and drawbacks to switching from your current two component system with mechanical regulator to a one component solid state reg/rec.

The main disadvantage is that if anything fails in the SS unit, everything fails and nothing can be serviced or adjusted for output. Advantages are obvious--no mechanical failures in the regulator and no corroded diode connections in the sealed SS unit.

If you make the change, avoid Electrosport like the plague; their stuff is trouble. Units from Rick's Motorsports Electronics can be trusted.

 

[cycleranger]

I'm not a fan of the combined reg/rec units.
I used a VR124 on my Hondas.
(Which upon checking seems to be going for a lot more than I paid 4 years ago.)
But there are several cheaper models that will work.
Then I got an $8 35 amp 3-phase rectifier from ebay.
(Thanks to wind turbines and China rectifiers are super cheap now.)

I wired it all together using a stone knife and bear skin.

I'll probably do something similar for my XS.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the stock hardware, but I don't see any downside to upgrading to more modern components.

There is nothing wrong with the stock alternator on these bikes, imho they get an undeserved bad rap.

 

[weekendrider]

I run some stock. Both old and newer with no plans to PMA or pamco.
But if I needed to replace a rec or reg I would go with the newer modded versions.

 

[glennpm]

Love it 2MaNY! "with steam gauges and flintlock ignition"

 

[XS650D]

Sounds like I may as well keep the old stock 2 piece system and
if it breaks then update. 650 central makes a unit for the older models that
has the plugs and correct wire color ready to go.Anyone use that unit or know were
its made.Its sound like more just update the Reg and leave the Rec.Honestly
never herd of a bad Rectifier at least on this forum.

 

[XS650D]

What part off the electrical system on the 650 standards would u replace or update (The weakest Link) if u could.Coils? I find that if I kick the bike when cold but use the electric starter when warm I have no issues. Starting the bike cold with electric its pretty weak but it always starts,just put a real drain on the battery it seams.Will new
stronger coils make that much off a diff in starting or running performance.I currently have the Mikes original style New coils installed.

 

[pamcopete]

The original relay type regulator has a tendency to cause a high voltage to the battery at high RPM which boils the battery and causes premature failure. This high voltage can also cause lights to burn out etc. as well as feeding a higher than necessary current to the rotor leading to its demise as well. Some will then adjust the regulator to produce a more moderate voltage at higher RPM's, but this leads to incomplete charging of the battery in stop and go traffic, which also causes the battery to die before it's time as well as overworking the starter motor which has to crank longer to start the engine due to the low battery voltage.

The original rectifier was not very good even when new from the factory. It has excessive voltage drop across the diodes which causes the regulator to send higher current to the rotor to compensate for the lower battery voltage which overheats the rotor causing it to fail prematurely.

So, the ancient regulator and low tech rectifier lead to premature failure of the rotor and the battery leading many to suggest that the original charging system is deficient, which is true but only insofar as the regulator and rectifier are concerned. Change both to modern solid state components and the life of the expensive rotor will be extended. I did this on my trusty '78/E and the rotor went 75,000 miles and was still working when I finally sold it. The battery also lasted a long time and rarely needed water.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

When you first switch the bike 'on', the regulator will be sending full current to the alternator's rotor, about 2.5 amps. Myself, I'd like to have that current draw delayed until after the engine starts, it doesn't do any good during starting, kinda a waste of battery power at the critical starting event. Have an idea or two in the back of my head...

 

[5twins]

Eventually, you should upgrade the rectifier and regulator. There's no need for that $100 combined motorcycle specific unit. Honestly, I think that's foolish and a giant waste of money. You can do it with a car regulator and that eBay rectifier for about $30. For your '77, you will want a VR115 regulator.

The original components do work but the charging output is not consistent. After mounting an LED charging output indicator, I could plainly see this. It shines green at 13.2 volts and above, orange from 12.45 to 13.2 volts. It will turn green sometimes as low as 1800 or 2000 RPMs. Other times not until 3200 to 3500 RPMs. Then sometimes it drops back to orange between 3500 and 4000 RPMs. The output is just not consistent. What this does is stress the rotor, making it work harder than it should have to. If you've read much about electrical problems on the forum, you have probably seen that burnt out rotors are common. That's another $100 repair. So, to me anyway, it only makes sense to spend a little now and possibly avoid that problem in the future.

Yes, the stock battery isn't very big and doesn't have a large reserve. I do like you do this time of year or whenever the temps are down near 50° - kick start for the initial start of the day, then electric start later on once the oil is warm and thinner. Better coils will help a little but won't make a huge difference. The best thing is to have the bike in a good state of tune. Then they are quick and easy starters, even stock.

I have a better, stronger coil now. The bike runs nice but I can't say there's a night and day difference between now and how it ran with the old stock coils.

 

[pamcopete]

When you first switch the bike 'on', the regulator will be sending full current to the alternator's rotor, about 2.5 amps. Myself, I'd like to have that current draw delayed until after the engine starts, it doesn't do any good during starting, kinda a waste of battery power at the critical starting event. Have an idea or two in the back of my head...

Remember that the safety relay works to disengage the starter and it is operated by the yellow wire from the alternator. Other than that, you could just use a relay to disconnect the power to the regulator when starting. I have the basics of such a system in three of my bikes but I use the relay to connect the regulator directly to the battery so it regulates the voltage at the battery instead of the load.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Remember that the safety relay works to disengage the starter and it is operated by the yellow wire from the alternator...

Safety relay? Starter? Yellow wire?

... I use the relay to connect the regulator directly to the battery so it regulates the voltage at the battery instead of the load.

Yes, that IS the better way...

 

[XS650D]

Great info,I am convinced. New reg/rec on the way! I am weak on electrical and would order the VR115 and ebay Rec But getting it wired correctly without the color coded wire may be a problem for me.Is there a section that would show mw what wire goes were or is it simpler than that.

 

[650Skull]

Here is a link.

Take note; The Pamco article relates to the 80-83 engines with the Factory TCI Ignition, the stators on these need Nylon screws added to the brushes due to ground issues. The car regulater is also different for points models.

Basically there is no difference in the set up procedure.

Note; Retiredgentlemans post at the bottom of page 1 is the regulator you need.


http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21485

 

[pamcopete]

Here is a link.

Take note; The Pamco article relates to the 80-83 engines with the Factory TCI Ignition, the stators on these need Nylon screws added to the brushes due to ground issues. The car regulater is also different for points models.

Basically there is no difference in the set up procedure.

Note; Retiredgentlemans post at the bottom of page 1 is the regulator you need.


http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21485

Just the opposite. The earlier pre '80 stators had one brush grounded and the purpose of the nylon screws is to eliminate that ground.

 

[Richardg]

I put at least 5000 miles on both my XS650s, both are solid state. The 71 has been running a Pamco ignition on it for years. Last trip on the 1980 was 380 miles To Yosemite, half of it being freeway. I have yet to have an electrical problem on either of them with solid state. Once a year I clean the inner slip rings on the rotor but that's about it. Charging on both my XS650s runs about 14.8 volts. Digital volt meter on one bike, analog meter on the other. I don't use a battery tender on either bike. I just ride them. I have no problem running solid state, especially for long distance trips.

 

[XS650D]

Pamcopete,So to confirm if i have a 77 model (no cdi) and
i run a solid state Reg/Rec i need Nylon screws holding the
inner grounded brush screw,correct?

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[5twins]

Read post #5, 13, and 20 .....

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21485

Disregard any stuff relating to the '80 and newer models. The regulator is different on them because the brushes are wired differently than yours.

This really is simple to do and saves you lots of money. Like I said, I think it's foolish to buy the motorcycle specific units. They're way, way over-priced.