Start button doesn't work, Kick-start only

[bret]

A couple years ago my 81 special stopped starting with the start button. Ever since I have just been using the kick starter because I am a broke college kid. I am looking to maybe fix this problem with some Christmas money but I'm no expert and not sure where to start. Should I just get a new starter relay from Mikes?

 

[retiredgentleman]

A common problem is loss of the ground at the handlebars. The starter button needs the handlebars to be grounded, in order to send that ground to the starter relay. You can try connecting a temporary ground to the blue/white wire terminal at the starter relay..................that is the same as pushing the PB. If the engine cranks, then you are missing the handlebar ground.

The 81 year also has a Starter Lockout Relay. You need to have a ground from the neutral switch, or the clutch pulled in, to allow the starter relay to work. If you want to by-pass the Starter Lockout Relay..................find the relay and add a wire from one red/white to the other red/white. With the transmission in neutral, if the engine cranks with the by-pass wire in place, it means the relay is defective or the neutral switch is not providing a ground on the light blue wire to the SLR

Wih the transmission selected to any gear, the clutch switch should send a ground to the SLR on the black/yellow wire, and allow the engine to crank.

 

[bret]

Thank you so much for your quick response. I will test these out this week and will hopefully find some time to let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,
Bret

 

[bret]

I took the side cover off and got to the blue/white wire but I'm not sure what the starter relay looks like. I took a wire and cut off the edges leaving wire exposed on either side and tested out a bunch of different locations. Nothing worked. I'm stuck.

 

[retiredgentleman]

The Starter Relay is found by following the large black cable from the battery positive post.

The Starter Lockout Relay is on the right side of the bike.....................look for 2 red/white wires, black/yellow and light blue.

 

[Craft518]

Retiredgentleman, do you think the fact I put powder coated bars on has anything to do with my similar issue? It worked for a day if I can remember correctly, but I could be mistaken. I jumped those starter wires the day I found this issue a month ago but was not able to trace the problem...this sounds like the last area I can check. I even swapped out started switches and a relay from an 81 I have for parts. Mine is an 80. Ill try the chrome bars again first if they work I'm going to stripping some paint of the black bars. If it doesn't any other ideas? Any help is much appreciated!

 

[retiredgentleman]

Retiredgentleman, do you think the fact I put powder coated bars on has anything to do with my similar issue? It worked for a day if I can remember correctly, but I could be mistaken. I jumped those starter wires the day I found this issue a month ago but was not able to trace the problem...this sounds like the last area I can check. I even swapped out started switches and a relay from an 81 I have for parts. Mine is an 80. Ill try the chrome bars again first if they work I'm going to stripping some paint of the black bars. If it doesn't any other ideas? Any help is much appreciated!

On my 78SE, I have a ground wire that comes from the headlight bucket black wire, and it comes into the turn signal switch on the left side of the bars. That grounds my bars. The grounded bars then privide the ground to the start PB on the right side.

Yes the powder coat may be insulating the bars, so that they're not grounded.

 

[deadchef]

Retiredgentleman, do you think the fact I put powder coated bars on has anything to do with my similar issue? It worked for a day if I can remember correctly, but I could be mistaken. I jumped those starter wires the day I found this issue a month ago but was not able to trace the problem...this sounds like the last area I can check. I even swapped out started switches and a relay from an 81 I have for parts. Mine is an 80. Ill try the chrome bars again first if they work I'm going to stripping some paint of the black bars. If it doesn't any other ideas? Any help is much appreciated!

when i put powder coated bars on my '81 my starter button didn't work. all i did was sand away some coating underneath both controls. for my bike the left hand control has a ground wire that comes from the headlight. that grounds the bars. then the control on the right hand side (that has the starter button) is grounded to the bars. just need to make sure that the controls have good metal-to-metal contact.

 

[Craft518]

I understand the fixes you have both stated but let me ask a stupid question. If the risers are set in a rubber grommet doesn't that negate the "ground" to the bars since they aren't actually metal contacting anything. Doesn't the riser grommet essentially insulate and isolate the riser metal and handlebar metal from really ever being grounded?

Maybe I'm wrong but this seems like a legit question. FYI haven't swapped the chromed out yet so I don't know if that works right now.

Thanks for your help.

 

[retiredgentleman]

I understand the fixes you have both stated but let me ask a stupid question. If the risers are set in a rubber grommet doesn't that negate the "ground" to the bars since they aren't actually metal contacting anything. Doesn't the riser grommet essentially insulate and isolate the riser metal and handlebar metal from really ever being grounded?

Maybe I'm wrong but this seems like a legit question. FYI haven't swapped the chromed out yet so I don't know if that works right now.

Thanks for your help.

I don't think you understand what was said in my post. The bars receive their ground from a black wire that comes from the headlight bucket. In the bucket is a common ground (black) that runs through the harness.

 

[deadchef]

I understand the fixes you have both stated but let me ask a stupid question. If the risers are set in a rubber grommet doesn't that negate the "ground" to the bars since they aren't actually metal contacting anything. Doesn't the riser grommet essentially insulate and isolate the riser metal and handlebar metal from really ever being grounded?

Maybe I'm wrong but this seems like a legit question. FYI haven't swapped the chromed out yet so I don't know if that works right now.

Thanks for your help.

the rubber grommets have no effect in the grounding of the bars because the bars get their ground from the left hand control box.

 

[Craft518]

Oh duh. I definately missed that. I will check that ASAP and thanks so much for your help. Bret, hope you got all fixed up too!! I'm certain this will work for me.

 

[Craft518]

So I swapped the chrome bars on, start switch worked!!! The. Out of curiosity I installed the black bars again and it still worked. Soooo...it's working, it's starting and I have no idea why!!! Loose wire maybe but I'm not complaining and if she cuts out again ill figure it out for sure. Thanks everyone.

 

[deadchef]

might try opening up your controls and checking the solder joints. years of vibration wreak havoc on these connections.

 

[retiredgentleman]

So I swapped the chrome bars on, start switch worked!!! The. Out of curiosity I installed the black bars again and it still worked. Soooo...it's working, it's starting and I have no idea why!!! Loose wire maybe but I'm not complaining and if she cuts out again ill figure it out for sure. Thanks everyone.

When you replaced the black bars, the fact that you re-clamped the control switches for a second time, caused the metal of the control switch housing to break through the powder coating and make good electrical contact. Mystery solved.

 

[XSLeo]

Another way to check for ground is to loosen the right side switrch housing enough to insert the bare ebd of a wire. Hook the other end of this wire to a good ground. Like clamping it to the engine.
This bypasses the bars. If thew starter button works then you know thw ground path from the button to the bars over to the left side switch housing to the black wire, down into the harness ground has a bad spot somewhere.
Leo