still unable to troubleshoot spark issue

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marvintheminnow

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I am running the pamco ignition with mikesXS part number 17-6803 with a primary resistance of 2.7 ohms.

i am getting very random & sporadic spark only, and never enough to get the bike running.

when checking for spark, i am able to get a smaller plug to produce less of this sporadic spark than the BP7ES.

is the problem the pamco or the coil?
 
the 20 miles i got out of my pamco sure made for easy starting of the bike but im at a loss and would hate to go out a buy a new coil and still have this spark issue. any advice or help greatly appreciated. I just want to get back on the road while its still summer.
 
Sounds like it could aseasily bea looseconnection somewhere. Check and clean all the terminals, removethe spark leads, cut 3/8" off and reconnect, check for damage to the cables, are theynew?
Spark plug wires do eventually wearout andloose their ability to keep the spark "in", especially with high output coils, which can leadto missing sparks. (My old fords were prone to this)

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-checked all connections, in fact disconnected everything that isnt required for running the bike (headlight, tailight)
-cut plug wire leads on both ends and tried again
-replaced plug wires which were fairly new to begin with and still nothing.

the pamco was just replaced and dont know if it was a new one or a refurbished one. I love the idea and ease of installation with the pamco but so far ive had bad luck with it.
 
i've never used a pamco, but from what you're describing, if it were the unit's fault, i would suspect the distance between the pick up and the shaft is borderline too far... try repositioning it,

if the smaller plug helps, try reducing your gap, might help

anyways, i'm sure someone who knows more will be on eventually.
 
marv....,

The replacement PAMCO was a new unit.

Have you checked your voltage right at the coil?

Here is a test procedure for the PAMCO and coil that does not require you to turn over the engine. This procedure does not use the starter motor. If you have been testing for spark with the starter motor, and you have a low battery, then you will get a weak spark. Hang in there and we will get you going.

1. Use a voltmeter and check for battery voltage on each of the red/white wires with the key and kill switch are turned on.
2. The dual output coil has to have both spark plug wires connected to a spark plug at all times.
3. To test for spark, connect one of the spark plug wires to a spark plug that is grounded to the engine.
To test for spark without having to turn the engine over, do this procedure:
1. Remove the PAMCO rotor.
2. Remove the locating pin in the advance rod.
3. Reinstall the rotor, but without the pin.
4. Replace the nut holding the rotor on loosely. This will allow you to spin the rotor to produce a spark without having to turn the engine over.
5. Connect one of the spark plug wires to a spark plug that is grounded to the engine, but not installed in the engine.
6. Make sure that the other spark plug wire is connected to a spark plug in the engine.
7. Turn on the ignition switch and the kill switch.
8. Spin the rotor while looking at the gap in the spark plug for a spark.
9. Turn off the kill switch and the ignition switch.
 
Pete-

my wiring has all been replaced so i do not have the red/white wires. I have a red wire running from my my ignition to the coil. the voltage from that wire tests good. i have checked for spark by pulling each plug one at a time and grounding it to the motor and the result is very sporadic or no spark.
 
Visegrippe said:
i've never used a pamco, but from what you're describing, if it were the unit's fault, i would suspect the distance between the pick up and the shaft is borderline too far... try repositioning it,

if the smaller plug helps, try reducing your gap, might help

anyways, i'm sure someone who knows more will be on eventually.
Click to expand...

I also tried reducing the gap this weekend and still no imrovement
 
marvintheminnow said:
I also tried reducing the gap this weekend and still no imrovement
Click to expand...

The gap is not critical. It will work with a 1/4" gap.

The point of my last post was to offer a testing procedure that does not require using the starter motor, which draws the battery down and could be the reason you are not seeing a good spark.

Did you try the procedure, or is your observation of the spark based on turning the engine over with the starter motor?
 
marv....,

OK. Could I ask you to do the test procedure above? Could you monitor the voltage at the coil as you rotate the rotor to see if the voltage drops when the transistor turns on?

Also, measure the resistance from cap to cap to ensure that the plug wires are making contact with the coil.
 
I will do anything to solve the mystery!

do i need to remove the advance cover and pull the rod all the way out of the engine? or just pull it in enough so the locating tab on the ignition side is out of play?
 
marv....,

Well, the 5K caps alone add up to 10K, so there is something wrong if you are only reading a total of 13K. Typical reading with the caps should be around 20 to 25K depending on the coil, unless I misunderstand you and you are measuring the coil without the caps?

As for removing the locating pin, you can just remove the PAMCO rotor, leave the rod in place, and just use a pair of needle nose to remove the pin. Reinstall the rotor without the pin, screw the nut on loosely so you can spin the rotor to simulate what the engine does when it is running.

As you turn the rotor, the coil will turn on and off alternately. When the coil is on, you should see a slight drop in the coil voltage (red wire) but not more than a 1/2 volt or so. Any more than that would indicate a low battery or high resistance in your switch.

If you have trouble pulling the pin for the rotor, replace the rotor and remove the slotted disk on the advance side. That will also allow you to spin the rotor.

While doing this test, do not leave the power on for very long unless you are actually spinning the rotor or the coil will overheat.

I am concerned about your 13K resistance for the coil, however. That would be a good reading for a coil without the caps, so are you sure you have 5K caps?
 
isnt the locating tab a permanant part of the rod? im not sure what you mean by pin.

once i have the rotor free to spin am i checking the voltage at the wire from my ignition to the coil? ill call it the red wire from my igntion switch and refer to the other wire as the green from the pamco.

im not positive i do have the 5K caps. i was measuring the resistance by placing one end of my meter in one cap and the other end of my meter in the other cap. is this the proper way to test the resistance between the caps?
 
Pete-

what happens or could potentially happen if i was running no resistance caps?

i am going to stop by te auto parts store today and pickup a set of 5K caps to make surei have the correct ones. will most auto parts stores have the ones i need?
 
marv....,

The PAMCO rotor is held from rotating on the rod by a small pin that is inserted in a hole in the rod. If you have difficulty removing it for this test, just remove the slotted disk on the other side by removing the nut and lock washer.

Once you get it going, check the voltage on the red wire that feeds the coil. What we are looking for is a drop in that voltage as the transistor turns on and the coil starts to draw current. If your battery is low or your switch has bad contacts, the voltage on the red wire will drop more than it should.

The caps are marked on their sides with the value of their resistance, like, 5K. The way you measured the resistance is fine because it includes the total of the resistance of each cap and the coil. Typical coils are in the 13K range, so if you have two 5K caps, the total resistance will be 5K + 5K + 13K = 23K. You only measured 13K, so either the coil is bad or you do not have 5K caps.
 
pretty sure their zero resistance caps. ill have to check when im home but i purchased them from MikesXS and looking on his site all of the 5K caps have NGK stamped in white and mine has nothing like the zero resistance caps shown on his site.
 
marv....,

If you cannot find suitable 5K caps in the Auto Supply store, then just buy some resistor spark plugs, like Autolite #63 or NGK BPR7ES (the "R" is for resistor).

That coil the 17-6803 does require the use of either resistor caps or resistor plugs. I have used the AutoLite #63's and I like them. They are also used in cars, so you will find them on sale and their price is low even if not on sale. If you get the resistor plugs, you will not need the resistor caps and the plugs are cheaper.
 

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