pregrid
XS650 Guru
What's the best way to align the front wheel with the rear? String, tape, laser? i'm not talking side to side but aligning both tires on the same track.
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tire alignment
- Thread starter pregrid
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- wheel alignment wheels
I just use the marks on the swingarm and the adjusters and haven't had any problems, but I rarely go over 70mph... I tweak both sides until the marks on both sides look the same, by eye.
The only stability problems I ever had was with a huge and heavy rain-soaked pack on the back, on a slick highway, at about 70. I could feel the rear wanting to wag back and forth and getting ready to break loose
if I went any faster. I don't attribute that to rough alignment, but who knows.
The only stability problems I ever had was with a huge and heavy rain-soaked pack on the back, on a slick highway, at about 70. I could feel the rear wanting to wag back and forth and getting ready to break loose
if I went any faster. I don't attribute that to rough alignment, but who knows.
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pregrid
XS650 Guru
yeah, i'm just at the point where I'm wondering if the front and rear wheels are aligned. Not really having a problem, but I'm almost done (like THAT ever happens with a build) and I wanna cover all the bases. Prolly OK, but...........you know...........
jayel
#9 Guru 74 TX650A
littlebill31
Smells of Raw Fuel
This should be moved to the "Garage"
But.....
I've used boards with great success. The rear tire is wider than the front so you need to, basically, make a spacer. I get 2 short boards and put them against the front tire and align the front forks with the frame. So the front is straight. I have a yard stick that is cut in half. I mounted them perpendicular on the front alignment board so they are sticking out. Then run 2 thin, straight strips of board, or something, from the rear wheel to the front. Align the strips with the measurement marks on the yard stick.
I have also clamped the strips to the rear tire. If it's up on its center stand, when you move the rear tire, it automatically moves the strips.
Here is a crude drawing:
But.....
I've used boards with great success. The rear tire is wider than the front so you need to, basically, make a spacer. I get 2 short boards and put them against the front tire and align the front forks with the frame. So the front is straight. I have a yard stick that is cut in half. I mounted them perpendicular on the front alignment board so they are sticking out. Then run 2 thin, straight strips of board, or something, from the rear wheel to the front. Align the strips with the measurement marks on the yard stick.
I have also clamped the strips to the rear tire. If it's up on its center stand, when you move the rear tire, it automatically moves the strips.
Here is a crude drawing:
pregrid
XS650 Guru
Thanks, guys.
1974jh5
Curmudgeon.
I swapped an XS500 rear wheel into my bike and needed to make sure it was centered. I started out by putting the frame with forks, shocks, swingarm and wheels on a set of large wood blocks, making sure it was level side to side. I then used a string and plumb bob centered on the top frame tube and then dropped over the rear frame 'hoop' to see just where my rear wheel needed to end up, I then mounted the rear wheel using stacked washers to simulate the spacers I'd need to make. After that was done, the final check was to clamp a piece of 1 x 1 1/2 steel tubing to the side of the rear wheel, then measure the same way jayel's diagram showed.
Dave, did you ever try checking the alignment? I'm wondering if misalignment is the reason my '81 street tracker seems to wear the center of the rear tire much faster than my friend's '81 stock bike (which was kept in my garage for a couple years and we rode together for most of the first 8k miles on the tires, which were the same brand and model, though his rear is 16" and mine us 18"). No big differences in riding style, neither of us has the skill to be a hooligan, and my bike is lighter, especially in the rear.
I've never had any stability problems, even with the rear loaded for a long trip with camping gear, or with a 50# bag of dog food strapped to the tail piece (not recommended for paint care...)
I had a thought that if the rear was at an angle compared to the front it might scrub the center off.
Thanks,
John
I've never had any stability problems, even with the rear loaded for a long trip with camping gear, or with a 50# bag of dog food strapped to the tail piece (not recommended for paint care...)
I had a thought that if the rear was at an angle compared to the front it might scrub the center off.
Thanks,
John
jayel
#9 Guru 74 TX650A
align the rear by measuring center of swing arm pivot to center of rear axle, both sides equal
Ah, that makes sense...thanks.
pregrid
XS650 Guru
Usually if you wear the center of the tire it's due to overinflation, what pressure are you running?
Royboy
many roads, little time
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Try two 8' fluorescent bulbs. Super straight, stiff, light and easy to maneuver. Yes they are fragile but one on each side of the rear tire (held fore and aft with a bit of electrical tape) and extending forward past the front tire will show you exactly where things are.
"Usually if you wear the center of the tire it's due to overinflation, what pressure are you running? "
Mid-high 30s, typically, nothing outrageous. The center of the rear is almost always the first part to wear, on either bike (and on any of my other bikes), it's just that mine wears faster.
I had a similar issue on a Monster 750, while my partner rode a Monster 620ie, same tires (but she was 80 lbs lighter than me...). She'd get 10k from a rear and I'd get 5k, same tire brand, model, and size, and I maintained both so the tire pressures were about the same.
Maybe I don't live clean enough.
Mid-high 30s, typically, nothing outrageous. The center of the rear is almost always the first part to wear, on either bike (and on any of my other bikes), it's just that mine wears faster.
I had a similar issue on a Monster 750, while my partner rode a Monster 620ie, same tires (but she was 80 lbs lighter than me...). She'd get 10k from a rear and I'd get 5k, same tire brand, model, and size, and I maintained both so the tire pressures were about the same.
Maybe I don't live clean enough.
I do tend to use my rear brake more than a lot of road riders, probably somewhat left over from learning to ride flat track, but I wouldn't think that would make a big difference as long as you weren't sliding. Maybe it does, though; maybe all of the little reversals of torque, from the engine pulses to to little oscillations of chain tightness from eccentricity of the sprocket to minor applications of the rear brake, cause imperceptible scrubs that wear the tire.
I don't want to get into a wrangle about tire pressures (though I'll agree that higher tire pressures would tend to wear the center a little faster), but it's somewhat a matter of preference; I run a bit higher because I think it would improve fuel mileage from less rolling friction, you say you like the smoothness lower pressures give; tire manufacturers recommend something in between:
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/web/products/tire_pressures/default.page
Tim H
XS650 Enthusiast
Accelerating and decelerating are both making use of the friction between the tire and the road to change the speed of the bike. I would certainly think these would have an effect on tire wear and life.
Not saying that is your problem, but tires will still wear from normal driving. If it was only slipping the tires that wore them out tires would last almost forever.
Not saying that is your problem, but tires will still wear from normal driving. If it was only slipping the tires that wore them out tires would last almost forever.
Hi, Tim,
I agree, and that would work for everybody, I guess...I just don't understand the physical reason for my more-rapid wear than other similar setups. I'm certainly going to check wheel alignment by the methods littlebill, jayel, and Roy give above.
Thanks,
John
I agree, and that would work for everybody, I guess...I just don't understand the physical reason for my more-rapid wear than other similar setups. I'm certainly going to check wheel alignment by the methods littlebill, jayel, and Roy give above.
Thanks,
John
I found a fairly thorough writeup on tire wear here:
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html
It's one man's understanding, but a couple of things he says:
"Empirical evidence for Valkyrie, GL1800 and VTX tires shows that running 38/40, 40/40 or 40/42 (or slightly above/below) will greatly extend tire life. The Honda spec of 33psi for these bikes is way too low and is designed for maximum comfort and grip but minimum tire life. Increasing the pressures to some combination of the above will provide increased longevity and improved handling for these tires."
Under "Rear Tire Wear" he says,
"Upright miles on a properly inflated front tire are rolling miles with little scuffing taking place. If, on the other hand, you look at your rear tire, you will indeed see that the center wears out first and this wear is often exaggerated because acceleration, engine braking* and real braking scuff stuff off the upright rear tire."
...
"* Engine braking is the exercise of downshifting and releasing the clutch through all the gears when coming to a stop.* On most modern bikes equipped with disc brakes this old timer's use of the engine to aid in braking is totally unnecessary. Doing so will loose you thousands of serviceable miles on your rear tire, will double the stress on your drive train and could cause your rear wheel to lock (even on a bike with ABS) causing a crash. When coming to a normal stop (red light etc) downshifting commensurate with your speed is still essential to bike safety (in case you need to power out of a jam), but releasing the clutch when doing so is not necessary and adds greatly rear tire flat band center wear. Keep that clutch pulled."
Well, he certainly has me dead to rights there. I'm always using engine braking and letting out the clutch while downshifting up to a stop. The riders I have been comparing myself to probably use the front brake more than engine braking. Hmm.
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html
It's one man's understanding, but a couple of things he says:
"Empirical evidence for Valkyrie, GL1800 and VTX tires shows that running 38/40, 40/40 or 40/42 (or slightly above/below) will greatly extend tire life. The Honda spec of 33psi for these bikes is way too low and is designed for maximum comfort and grip but minimum tire life. Increasing the pressures to some combination of the above will provide increased longevity and improved handling for these tires."
Under "Rear Tire Wear" he says,
"Upright miles on a properly inflated front tire are rolling miles with little scuffing taking place. If, on the other hand, you look at your rear tire, you will indeed see that the center wears out first and this wear is often exaggerated because acceleration, engine braking* and real braking scuff stuff off the upright rear tire."
...
"* Engine braking is the exercise of downshifting and releasing the clutch through all the gears when coming to a stop.* On most modern bikes equipped with disc brakes this old timer's use of the engine to aid in braking is totally unnecessary. Doing so will loose you thousands of serviceable miles on your rear tire, will double the stress on your drive train and could cause your rear wheel to lock (even on a bike with ABS) causing a crash. When coming to a normal stop (red light etc) downshifting commensurate with your speed is still essential to bike safety (in case you need to power out of a jam), but releasing the clutch when doing so is not necessary and adds greatly rear tire flat band center wear. Keep that clutch pulled."
Well, he certainly has me dead to rights there. I'm always using engine braking and letting out the clutch while downshifting up to a stop. The riders I have been comparing myself to probably use the front brake more than engine braking. Hmm.
Classic
rackin' up the miles
I don't think I could get accustomed to not engine braking.
@pregrid, When installing my rear tire I just equalize the distance between the tire and brake stay on one side and the tire and chain on the other side. I was able to get over 20,000 miles out of a $65 tire using this method so I can safely say it worked for me.
@pregrid, When installing my rear tire I just equalize the distance between the tire and brake stay on one side and the tire and chain on the other side. I was able to get over 20,000 miles out of a $65 tire using this method so I can safely say it worked for me.
