Toyota's solid state battery tech.

Quote from insideevs.com "Solid state batteries can have several times the energy density, they no longer use aqueous electrolyte solutions and they reduce the risk of fire in an accident. Instead of the liquid or polymer gel electrodes, a solid state battery (as its name suggests) uses solid electrodes and a solid electrolyte.

From an end user’s point of view, a solid state battery will drastically reduce recharging times, making the experience not that much longer than the act of filling an ICE vehicle up with fuel. Toyota says that its new SUV will be fully charged from flat in 10 minutes and that this will grant it a range of 500 km.

It is worth noting, though, that solid state batteries are known to not perform too well in cold temperatures and their long-term durability was also brought into question in the past. Toyota has not specifically mentioned these two aspects in any of its press releases on the matter, but these have certainly been at least two of the challenges the manufacturer faced in creating solid state batteries designed for longer term use."
 
I remember reading a while back that the manufacturing process for solid state batt's was stupid expensive. Wonder how they've dealt with that...
 
Um Toyota says they will have a running prototype in 2021
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/19/toyota-solid-state-battery-ev-prototype-2021/
The Japanese government is funding development, Panasonic is also participating.
To Jim's point apparently DRY manufacturing is not simple.
Have you noticed the price of 60" class extremely high resolution TV's these days.
That was "impossible" 10 years ago?
Tesla's "Battery Day" was not an announcement of a new generation of batteries, rather a bundle of improvements to "Existing" Battery tech and it's integration into the structure of the car.
And all those battery powered cars will need to be charged.
https://www.powermag.com/fusion-power-watching-waiting-as-research-continues/
 
Didn’t Chevy make an all electric drive car , that used a small efficient gas motor running a generator that just idled away for the sole purpose of keeping the batteries charged? I seem to remember that car had real world range and the little motor was very fuel efficient. I thought it was a brilliant design, I liked it better than hybrids.

On another note, whatever happened to the great hope of abundant clean burning hydrogen?
 
https://insideevs.com/news/460244/toyota-solid-state-battery-detailed/
Find this extremely interesting.
My guess (and seriously considering betting on it) is that this will nail the lid shut on internal combustion.

One of my colleagues is a leading expert in EV propulsion ( www.https://chargelabs.ca/ ) and we have agreed that EV propulsion technology is, at present, about where ICEs were in around 1930s-40s.

We know how to design and build them for a certain level of performance and durability is improving steadily, but the amount of new R&D that will be done in the 15-30 years will make today's products seem very primitive just as a 1990's Prius or early Nissan Leaf is now pretty much a dud.

The key variables being worked on are range, charge rate and cost and all of them are key barriers to adoption at present, but the barriers are coming down pretty rapidly.

The next big challenge will be the supply of key strategic materials needed for high efficiency motors and batteries. At present, many of the important materials such as lithium and cobalt come from regions of the world (lithium from Chile and cobalt from the Congo) that are remote and very unstable and do not have good supplier infrastructure. that makes pricing and security of supply uncertain. As long as EVs are only a few percent of the market (presently about 3% in NAM), that isn't too big an issue, but a really large adoption rate will strain those supplies and cause problems.

For that reason, a lot of attention is being paid to supplies of strategic materials in more stable places like.....Canada :D ...where the natives are more....reasonable.

The next decade or so will be very interesting indeed.
 
One of my colleagues is a leading expert in EV propulsion ( www.https://chargelabs.ca/ ) and we have agreed that EV propulsion technology is, at present, about where ICEs were in around 1930s-40s.

We know how to design and build them for a certain level of performance and durability is improving steadily, but the amount of new R&D that will be done in the 15-30 years will make today's products seem very primitive just as a 1990's Prius or early Nissan Leaf is now pretty much a dud.

The key variables being worked on are range, charge rate and cost and all of them are key barriers to adoption at present, but the barriers are coming down pretty rapidly.

The next big challenge will be the supply of key strategic materials needed for high efficiency motors and batteries. At present, many of the important materials such as lithium and cobalt come from regions of the world (lithium from Chile and cobalt from the Congo) that are remote and very unstable and do not have good supplier infrastructure. that makes pricing and security of supply uncertain. As long as EVs are only a few percent of the market (presently about 3% in NAM), that isn't too big an issue, but a really large adoption rate will strain those supplies and cause problems.

For that reason, a lot of attention is being paid to supplies of strategic materials in more stable places like.....Canada :D ...where the natives are more....reasonable.

The next decade or so will be very interesting indeed.

You just summed up all of my reservations with EV’s. I remember taking a test drive in the first generation Prius, I went to the Toyota dealer and they were excited to show it off, they trotted out a special representative who was well informed to take me out for a drive. It was summer here and hotter than hades and if you wanted the air conditioning on, then the gas motor had to run all the time. In order to test the electric only drive I had to turn the air off. Yeah...not gonna happen here. That was rectified in later models, the air conditioning was electrically operated.

About six months ago I started looking into used electric cars, of course how old the batteries are , are a major concern. I found a one owner first gen BMW all electric car, that was owned by an EV enthusiast.
2C3B501F-C154-473B-BDDE-667937F09D14.jpeg
He had just put a fresh battery pack in and the price was less than what you’d pay for an Asian econo car. Hmmm....interesting.
Then I started researching charging options. Costs pile up pretty quickly, you can spend a couple grand on a 220 volt fast charger. And something I never realized before was how expensive remote charging stations were. I naively believed that charging stations were something that cities were building to promote electric vehicle use, and that shopping centers were adding to encourage shopping at their mall. You can spend as much to charge your electric car as you would to fill up a gas tank.
98F48127-6F12-48AB-BF15-BC688EB46D1A.jpeg
And lastly, an almost complete lack of infrastructure to support electric vehicles, only confirmed my belief that electric just isn’t ready for prime time. Yet......;)
 
And lastly, an almost complete lack of infrastructure to support electric vehicles, only confirmed my belief that electric just isn’t ready for prime time. Yet......;)

ZACKLEY - soon, but not quite yet....

....and an older model pure EV as a used car - he!! no. I'd sooner buy an older model German sports car.....

As for the early Prius - in some respects, it really was not a true EV. The only way it could move under electric-only power was when it was in reverse and then, the range was no more than a few hundred meters. In "drive" it could get away from a stop if treated gently and it could putter around a parking lot for a few hundred meters unless the A/C or heater / defroster were on - in which case, the ICE had to be running. That coupled with the relatively short life of the early Ni-Cd batteries meant that the economics were....dodgey at best.

The new Prius' are much, much better but they are hybrids which are quite a different kettle of fish from a pure EV like a Nissan Leaf or a Tesla or one of the BMW models. Once the battery in one of those pure electric vehicles begins to age, the cost to restore even the primitive levels of EV performance is far more than the value of the car - and so that is why the re-sale prices of early model EVs are so low.

The CBC had a story a few weeks back about a guy who has a 2013 Nissan Leaf that needs a new battery to restore operating range. He is not trying to get a free-bee and is willing to pay. Nissan can quote him a price (I think around $15000) - but they cannot actually supply him with a battery.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle-new-battery-1.5769998

In any event, does it make sense to invest $15,000 in an eight year old car that is only worth about $3-4K? The issue is that if you don't make that investment, you basically have a four-wheeled garden shed because it cannot function as a car. THAT is the problem with fully EV cars. As they depreciate, the cost of a new battery fairly soon exceeds the value of the car and that is the conundrum:
  • DO install the new battery for $15K and now, once again, you have a car that is worth $3-4K
versus....
  • DON'T put in the new battery and you have a car that is completely worthless.
At least a Prius can still function as a car, even if the battery dies....
 
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Another concern I haven't seen addressed is disposal of used-up battery packs and the toxic waste/by products from manufacturing them.

Oh yes.....there's always THAT inconvenient truth as well. Another of my colleagues is a total-life cycle expert and apparently, recycling used Li-ion battery packs uses a non-trivial amount of energy.

...and by the way, I am not an EV opponent, but a small dash of realism with the double order of hype is always useful IMO.
 
Yes many are confused; nearly all Prius get 100% of thier energy from gasoline. (there are a few plug ins) my first Prius an 05 bought used n abused with 100K on the clock survived my brutal mail route use til 225K then was sold to (at least 2 other) mail carriers. Kinda lost track but was seen in a post office parking lot in the last year. I heard it got a replacement battery pack. My next Prius a 2012 bought in 14 with 35K miles now has 118K, I've changed oil at 10K intervals, it's most of the way through the second set of tires, I had to put a set of rear brakes in it, a couple light bulbs, and windshield wiper blades. suspect I will get tired of the constant maintenance and sell when it passes 200K. perhaps an all electric will be it's replacement. My mail carrier has passed 200K in his 2012 Prius. I know of others that survived mail duty past 300K.
All of that to illustrate how Toyota tends to do things, when Toyota production starts it'll be ready for prime time. Well no one's perfect first year will usually have some glitches.
Like Prius battery packs, look to the aftermarket for more reasonable prices when the OEM Leaf battery gets tired.
I suspect a burgeoning market in Bicycle/motorcycle electrics is going to be at the forefront of a change in how we transport locally. Not least are tricycle versions that can skirt onerous automobile safety regulations and take up a LOT less space on the road and when parked.
Add autonomous driving to the mix. Likely to be a de facto requirement sooner than we might wish. It also allows reduced size, complexity with piss poor drivers prevented from smashing into everything in sight..
 
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