What do I actually need? Electrical wise, tracker build

So how do I start the bike then? If I can not have the ignition on without the bike running...

I have to turn the ignition switch to "on" and have the kill switch open, then kick the bike over to start it, correct?
 
Once again I'd say you need to ask Pete about his system but in others you just need to be aware that as long as you're set to run there may be electricity running through the coil so you avoid leaving it on when *you don't need it* to be. When starting or running you DO need it to be on, so don't sweat that.

Small note here, you shouldn't make a second thread about the same subject. Nobody knows which one to reply to now. I know you're new so no worries, just letting you know.
 
I am still very confused by this whole system, I suppose my brain is totally drained from a day packed full of physics and calculus...

Ok, sorry, I didn't know, I figured that once I got the schematics nailed down for the most part then I would post it up again
 
I don't wanna come off like I think I'm the boss of the place, for all I know I could be the only one confused by it :D It's not a big deal either way.
 
All we are saying is that during the process of wiring and testing your lights etc. with the key on, kill the power to the pamco so you don't fry it. Normal running/starting... everything will be on.
 
I'm not sure about the aftermarket combo units but if you replace the seperate pieces with a OEM combo from a later model bike you have to change the brush holder screws from steel to nylon. Lots of info here on that subject if you search. I replaced my stock components with a Napa auto regulator and a home made Radio Shack rectifier. Many of us have done this and it works great for little cash. Here's some info on ungrounding the brushes.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6477&highlight=combo+rectifier+regulator
 
I agree with Grinder, that part looks like it fits and the description of how it connects sounds right. It also says it is for the older points models. It should be right for the 70-79 bikes with out needing any mods, rewire or nylon screws. Just plug and play.
I have not used that unit but I'm sure others have and they might comment on how well it works.
Leo
 
GreasyC said:
This is maybe my fault for writing that the ignition "sends power into the coils" instead of getting into the details. That's not a technical description, you can't actually "send power" to anything but I was trying to simplify the situation.

You have two ideas here, voltage and current, and you only get power when both are present. The red wire brings a voltage to the coil. A voltage by itself is just a state of being, nothing is actively going on and no power (heat/work) takes place so the coil won't fry just because it's connected to the red wire. The ignition unit controls when current will flow through the coil by connecting the other end to ground. It only charges the coil for a short time before each spark event, the rest of the time the coil is "off". It's still connected to the battery voltage by that red wire but it lacks a path to ground to complete the circuit and get current flow so it's off.

One gotcha about the older mechanical ignition systems was the engine could come to rest at a point where the coil was "on" and actively charging. If you left your key in the run position the battery would discharge through the coil to ground. I don't know if the pamco works that way or not but Pete posts here frequently so he can answer that for you.
Click to expand...

I don't think you got that quite right.

lets just take it from the positive pole of the battery.


A wire from the positive pole goes to the input side of switch1 (the main switch or ignition swith, e.g. a toggle or a key). When a switch is on it is said to be "closed" When switch1 is closed the circuit is complete up to the output side of that switch.

A wire runs from the output side of switch1 to the input side of the primary windings of the coil. The output side of the primary windings goes to a wire connected to switch2Switch2 can be a set of points or a hall effect unit or a TCI or a bunch of things - but they all function as switches. The output side of switch2 connects to a wire that goes to ground.



When switch1 AND switch2 are closed (e.g the ignition is turned "on" and the points are in contact) the circuit is complete from the battery, through the primary windings of the coil, switch2 and the ground. This creates a magnetic field.

When switch2 opens it breaks the primary winding circuit and causes the magnetic field to collapse in a higher voltage discharge through the spark-plug wire, into the spark plug, and then to ground (for a one tower coil) at the sparkplug threads.

When you "set the timing" what you are doing is setting the place where switch2 opens, breaks the circuit and cause a "spark."

Switch2 is closed most of the time (it just opens for a nano-second at spark time) So, whenever the key is on the primary windings are energized, the coil is "working" and it will heat up.
 
Yep we're describing the same system, it's only your last sentence that's different than my understanding:

Switch2 is closed most of the time (it just opens for a nano-second at spark time) So, whenever the key is on the primary windings are energized, the coil is "working" and it will heat up.
Click to expand...

How long "switch 2" is closed for is called the dwell time. I don't have an XS with points handy to measure the dwell time but I've haven't seen an ignition with so much dwell time that switch 2 could be said to be "closed most of the time." Usually it's closed for only a small percentage of each cam revolution.

Google says the dwell angle on the pamco is 60 degrees, in other words current is flowing through the coil primary 60 out of 360 degrees, or 16% of the time. That's considering one spark per cam revolution, if you have a single coil/wasted spark set up I guess you would double that and say 33% of the time "switch 2" is closed.
 
true enough. dwell is "closed switch" time and as you say it is not (as I said) "most" of the time.

But, closed switch time is "recharge" time for the coil it is not "spark time" as your description suggests.

Spark is not created when the coil is energized, but rather when it ceases to be energized.
 
Well, I guess maybe I'm bad writer but I never meant to suggest it it was spark time. I wrote: "The ignition unit controls when current will flow through the coil by connecting the other end to ground. It only charges the coil for a short time before each spark event, the rest of the time the coil is off". I didn't get into the details of how the how inductors want current flow through them to stay constant so suddenly turning the current off by opening the switch causes a huge voltage to develop across the winding because this thread was supposed to be about *simplifying* the system into terms a complete first timer could understand.
 
GreasyC said:
Well, I guess maybe I'm bad writer but I never meant to suggest it it was spark time. I wrote: "The ignition unit controls when current will flow through the coil by connecting the other end to ground. It only charges the coil for a short time before each spark event, the rest of the time the coil is off". I didn't get into the details of how the how inductors want current flow through them to stay constant so suddenly turning the current off by opening the switch causes a huge voltage to develop across the winding because this thread was supposed to be about *simplifying* the system into terms a complete first timer could understand.
Click to expand...

yeah, your right. I'm just a crotchity old lawyer with a hyper-sensitivity to exactitude of phrase (which does not prevent me from getting things completely wrong from time to time.)
 
So when I went to hook up the wiring I realized that I actually have 2 green wires on that connector coming from the left side of the engine. The connector has 3 white wires, 2 green wires and a blue wire... now I am confused... I know that one of the green wires goes from the brushes to the regulator, but I do not know where the other green wire goes, or the blue wire for that matter... I have another blue wire coming from the lower left of the engine that goes to the neutral switch so that wire is accounted for.

Also, does is matter which white wire goes where on the rectifier?

Anyone have any insight on this?

I will include my current wiring diagram of what I am going off of.
wiringdiagramfinal.jpg
 
Two green wires? That's odd, you might try pushing the cover over the bundle back a bit to see the wires better. The exposed part of the wire can change color over the years.
Another thing you can do is use your meter set on a low ohm scale and touch one probe to each wire at the brushes and one probe to each green wire at the plug. One brush has a green wire, the other should have a black wire. Checking this will verify just which wire goes to which brush. The outer brush has the green wire and the inner brush black.
The blue wire doesn't come from the stator. If you look close you will see it comes from a switch on the top of the transmission and enters the wire bundle just above the engine case. then comes up to the plug. After the plug it runs up to the neutral light.
Power flows to the neutral light bulb on a brown wire, from the bulb on a blue wire, down to the neutral switch. When in neutral the switch grounds the blue wire to light the neutral light.
Leo
 
Yes, both of those wires look green. As I said you can check to see which one goes where with your meter set to a low ohm scale. Unhook the wires at the brushes, now touch one probe to one of the green wires in the plug, touch the other probe to each of the brush wires. You will get a low reading once you touch both ends of the same wire.
Once you find which green wire hooks to the outer brush mark the plug by that green wire so you know it goes to the hot brush. The wire that goes to the inner brush is the grounded brush.
I might use a + for the hot and a - for the ground.
From looking at a harness I have here the top green wire is the + brush wire, the middle green wire is the - brush wire. The bottom blue wire is for the neutral light.
Leo
 
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