What happens if i dont use an advance unit?

83 XS-SJ/K manual here. Wont help with the advance as they were all electronic ignition and had none. The XSB manual there will help though.
 
There are 3 locating pins total. They're all the same. Two are in the advance rod like you found. The 3rd sticks in a small hole at the advance end of the cam to locate the advance unit properly. It appears you can see it in your pics at about the 10 o'clock position. You will need one more pin (Mikes #14-0653).

Older cams had 4 bushings, 2 on each side. The inner one is hard to see so may be in yours. Your '83 cam would have come with no bushings installed so someone either put them in or swapped in an older cam. Pete recommends only 3 because the Pamco puts less stress on the left side bushings so only one bushing is enough there.
 
So if I can see 2 of the bushings does it mean i probably just cant see the other one? So 1 more locating pin and the advance unit? Where does that big nut go? I didn't see it in the picture...

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It goes on the right end of the cam, it's threaded. You may not be able to see the other 2 bushings because they're deeper inside the cam, behind the outer ones. This is assuming it's an older cam or that the P.O. installed 4 and not just 2. Considering what he did with mounting the ignition, who knows, lol.
 
Haha. You're probably right. Should the bushings Just slide in would they need to be tapped in? How can I check for 2 on the advance side? I see the big nut now. It's between the plate and the springs and weights. I think I might actually be able to do this. Once I finally get my parts. Too bad nobody lives by me. The guy with the xs out here is still running the stock ignition so he doesn't use this...

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So maybe this is why I don't see 2 bushings? I got one out and there's a pin stopping the first one from making room for the 2nd one. Why is that pin there?

c8373053.jpg


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Nevermind. I just answered my own question. I can push that pin down to put a 2nd bushing in. But apparently those bushings get bent out of shape easily cause now the advance rod won't go through this one. I'm going to have to buy 3 anyway. Cause I'll probably need an extra. Haha...

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Jawknee21 said:
Ok. I took mine apart and there's only 1 washer on the advance side. And I can only find 2 of those brass bushings. Why does pamcopete say I need 3? And there is a few locating pins but I'm not sure which ones are which There were 2 that i saw in the rod. Besides that I don't know where to find the others...

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Click to expand...

Looking at your picture I would agree with 5twins that you have the advance rod and the slotted disk and you just need the advance mechanism. The brass bushings might already be installed. I recommend three brass bushings, two on the advance side and one on the PAMCO side. This is to reduce the possibility for the advance rod binding because I believe that the factory presses the bushings in with some kind of tool that you don't have. When you press the bushing in by hand, they may get misaligned, so only having one on the PAMCO side reduces that possibility. You need two on the advance side to retain the locating pin for the advance plate. There is no pulsating torque with the PAMCO like there is with points, so you don't need all the bushings.

You need a total of three locating pins. One for the PAMCO rotor, one for the slotted disk and one for the advance plate. Check your advance rod to see if you have two of the three.

The advance mechanism comes with that giant ring type nut but I'm not sure that it comes with the locating pin (Part #14-0652) . The locating pin is on the same page and it only costs $1.10, so get a couple. One for the advancer and one for the one that you drop on the floor, never to be seen again.

Come back with your completed list of parts that you are going to order from MikesXS and we'll check it out for you.

Pete
 
Ok, heres what im going to get

Part #14-0652 Auto Advance Unit

3 X -Part #05-0032 Camshaft internal metal Bush for advance rod.

2 X- Part #14-0653 Advance Locating Pin

Part #35-9000 Timing Light

Part #14-0655 Contact breaker plate Screws (not sure what these are for)

I dont think i know how the advance actually works. i know what it does for the engine but i not how it actually moves. Is any part of it stationary? Or does the whole thing spin?
 
I think its this picture thats confusing me. The "Pin" on the backside of the advance plate that lines up with the space in the advance plate where the other pin would go, seems like it would keep the advance plate from spinning. is that right? it looks like everyones advance plate is in a different position. so maybe it does spin? Im lost. i guess i can just go by the instructions and maybe ill figure it out if it works...


Timing3.JPG
 
The advancer backplate is secured to the camshaft with the large nut. A pin embedded in the camshaft alines the advancer backplate. The pin you are pointing to only serves to keep the alinement pin in its place (centrifugal force).

So does the advancer backplate spin. Yes and no. The plate is fixed to the camshaft, so it does not turn in relation to the camshaft. However, the camshaft turns with the engine, so the backplate spins along with the camshaft.

The fly weights spin along with the backplate and as the weights go outward, they rotate the slotted disk thus rotating the ATU shaft.

Everything on the ATU is rotating with the engine, plus the slotted disk and the ATU shaft can rotate 25 degrees with respect to its position on the camshaft.

Clear as mud:D
 
Jawknee21,

The list looks complete. Here is a video of the advancer working with the engine not running.


You can see that as the weights fling out from centrifugal force they cause the slotted disk and advance rod to rotate in a clockwise direction. The PAMCO rotor is attached to the rod on the other side, so this clockwise rotation becomes counter clockwise on the PAMCO side and the rotor then rotates counterclockwise which means that the magnets get to the sensor sooner (advanced).

After you get everything installed, be sure to do this test because it is important that the advance rod and the PAMCO rotor is free to move and snaps back with the springs and weights.
 
All of this is helping a lot. I've seen that video a few times. I first saw it a few months ago and didn't know what it was or why it was there. I just thought I didn't need it. Now I watch it and it makes sense. How does it look while the engine is running? That pin on the back of the advance plate seems like it would stop it from turning. Or is it short enough to miss everything? Does that pin hold in the other pin? I might be confusing myself...

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Oh ok. And that pin keeps them together? I think that I'm thinking that the advance parts are bigger than they actually are. Maybe ill understand when I get the parts. I'm sure you'll see more of this thread when I finally do. Thank you for your patience...
 
Jawknee21,

When you get it all together, shine the strobe on the advancer and you can see how it works when you increase the revs.
 
That pin you found blocking the bushing install is your 3rd "missing" pin. That's the one the advance unit locks onto. Buy some extras anyway. I'm not sure you need the #14-0655 contact breaker plate screws unless the current ones holding your Pamco backing plate on are all buggered up.
 

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