Wheel lacing. new spokes don't lay like the old ones

[TLCbobber]

EDIT: having taken a few out to see how inners fit as outers I realize it doesn't even want to line up. I'll leave the original post as it was. end edit.

I've just laced up my 18" rear wheel using stainless spokes, the pattern is good, none of the spokes are bending or interfering with each other... in fact they're not even touching where they cross over.

The original spokes made contact at the crossover point and when they came out through the holes in the hub the bend angle made them lay flat across the surface of the hub but my new outer spokes come away from the hub at the hole then angle back toward the hub to touch the edge only. It fits ok, it just doesn't lay the same as the old ones.

I started with the short head spokes on the inners and went from there. Haven't trued or over tightened the nipples yet, they're just tight enough to take up slack and play.

Is this normal with replacement stainless spokes or did I get my inners and outers the wrong way round? I feel like I did it correctly, just want to check though.

I laced it using a combination of drawings I made for the pattern and info from here http://www.xs650chopper.com/2009/12/how-to-lace-a-wheel-from-scratch/

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Yep, longer heads to the outside. It IS annoying when the outers don't lay flat against the hub rim. I'd be concerned if they stick WAY out, stressing the bend. Some lacing threads for entertainment:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33187
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37193
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37756

 

[TLCbobber]

Thanks TwoMany. Appreciate your input.
I'm happy that I've done it right, but I'm not happy with how it is at all.

I tightened them up a bit more, the gap at the crossovers closed up but it looks like the inners curved a bit to meet the outers. Outers are straight as dies. I just like things to go back how they were, exactly how they were, and it's bugging me. I probably won't be happy until I've pulled it apart and tried switching all the inners/outers again before ending back where I am... bit like going home just to make sure I locked the front door

I looked over a few threads on it, haven't seen the ones you posted 'til now. I'll check them out.

 

[TLCbobber]

I thought something you said in one of those threads was worth repeating here. I saw you mention this in another thread but not with such detail. I'll be doing this after I make a wrench tomorrow. Thanks.

"Loosen ALL the outers.
True using only the inners. Less spokes to fool with.
Inner-only adjustments give more movement, are more 'direct', make more sense, and are less 'black magic'.
Black magic: Normally, adjustments on the near side (where you have the runout gauges) have a direct influence on the rim position. Sometimes, however, the adjustment is done at the opposite side, while observing the rim at the near side. Sometimes done to accomodate wierd/damaged rims, or the meddlesome weld. Unless you want to wear funny hats, a cloak, and start chanting in foreign languages, try to avoid this 'black art' area.

Get as close as you can with only the inners. Ensure even tightness when done with this stage.

Now start snugging the outers, a little at a time. Watch the runouts, and establish true by adjusting the outers only.

Approaching final snug on the outers, fine-tune the runouts.

Ensure that inners remain snugged. If not, snug carefully while maintaining true." ~TwoManyXS1Bs

 

[5twins]

Besides the length of the bend, inners and outers have different angles. The outers are 90° or a little tighter. The inners are more than 90° .....

 

[TLCbobber]

Thanks 5twins for the addition. You know I'm pretty sure I put them in right based on your pic too. I did compare my new and old spokes before I rebuilt the wheel and they weren't a prefect match new for old. I think I'll pull a couple back out tomorrow, take a snap and post it.